- April 05, 2024
- Gambling
In recognition of National Problem Gambling Awareness Month, Wager Danger travelled to Waukegan to attend and capture highlights from Dr. Adell’s personal story “Confessions of a Slot Machine Queen.”
A jointly sponsored event between Northern Illinois Recovery Community Organization (NIRCO) and Nicasa Behavioral Health Services, Dr. Mary Robison at NIRCO and Elizabeth Thielan at Nicasa also join our conversation to share why these grassroots community events are so important.
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Transcript:
00;00;01;20 – 00;00;31;01
Unknown
Welcome to Wager Danger. I’m your host, Shane Cook, gambling disorder program director at Gateway Foundation. And today we have another remote podcast experience for you. We ventured up to Waukegan, Illinois, to the headquarters of the Northern Illinois Recovery Community Organization, also known as Narco, for a jointly sponsored event between Norco and Nicosia in recognition of Problem Gambling Awareness Month.
00;00;31;04 – 00;00;54;17
Unknown
We’re here. How’s it going? We found a quiet space away from the action of the event to set up our mikes and have conversations with a few different people Doctor Mary Robertson, Elizabeth Thielen and the featured speaker, Doctor Sandra Adell, who talks about her book confessions of a Slot Machine Queen and her life lessons from Living through a Gambling Addiction.
00;00;54;19 – 00;01;16;12
Unknown
And I want you all to go that we all have stories to tell. And for those of us who are in recovery, however, you do find that sometimes it’s helpful to tell your story somehow. First up was Doctor Mary Robertson, founder and CEO of narco, who gave us an overview of what we can expect from the event. Welcome to the show, Doctor Robertson.
00;01;16;14 – 00;01;47;05
Unknown
Oh, well, thank you so much, Shane. It’s an honor to be here. And it’s great to have you guys here recognizing Problem Gambling Awareness month. Yeah, definitely. Definitely. Tell us a little bit about Norco. Okay, so Northern Illinois Recovery Community Organization, was birthed at a of idea that I had to embed an organization here in Lake County, particularly in what we call the trifecta area, Waukegan, North Chicago and Zion.
00;01;47;08 – 00;02;17;06
Unknown
Okay. RCO, which is the abbreviation? It’s basically peer based. Peer driven. For those that are either seeking recovery or in recovery from mental health, substance use disorder and those things of that sort. So I had this pregnancy, if you will, and the pregnancy was the idea of an organization right here in this community to highlight the fact that, recovery does work.
00;02;17;09 – 00;02;37;18
Unknown
That recovery is for everyone, but that recovery has a face and a voice to it. Okay. And you have a staff here as a as a volunteer staff that you have a paid staff? Yes, we have a paid staff. And we also have a host of volunteers that come in and help us at events, not just the once a day.
00;02;37;19 – 00;03;09;17
Unknown
Okay. All right. Perfect. And, in terms of referrals to people that seek treatment and assistance here, are they referred in? You know, are there particular organizations that that work on those referrals or. Yeah. So those to you? Yeah. So the way that it works, we’re not a treatment or clinical program. It’s recovery support services. Okay. We like to emphasize that because treatment is like groups and then treatment plans and things of that sort.
00;03;09;23 – 00;03;44;14
Unknown
And we are providing the support for individuals that are seeking recovery. So so you’re more like aftercare. Well, we don’t like to say no, I understand that, but but it’s, it’s continuing. Recovery. Exactly. And continuing the recovery journey. There you go. That’s it. That’s exactly what it is. When you think about that continuum of care from a treatment standpoint, where it begins with prevention and ends with, continuing care or aftercare, that’s now recovery support services in our world of behavioral health.
00;03;44;15 – 00;04;05;14
Unknown
Sure. All right. Well, we’re we’re really excited about the event tonight. What should we expect? Well, it’s, going to be some storytelling by Doctor Adele, a woman that we met some years ago through Elizabeth Thielen, who will later be talking to you. She has a very profound story about her own experience with what, gambler.
00;04;05;17 – 00;04;30;22
Unknown
And then there’s going to be some entertainment, and then there’s going to be probably some personal testimonies as well, with some of the people that’s in the audience. We also have refreshments, food and, you know, just fellowship and to bring awareness to this, very serious problems that we have in our community. This is part of the National Problem Gambling Awareness Month, the theme of which is Every Story Matters.
00;04;30;25 – 00;04;53;23
Unknown
The story of people who’ve been impacted by gambling harm has not been told. There are very few people who are speaking up and talking about how gambling has hurt them. And it takes a lot of fortitude, bravery and just the ability to share your story in a way that I think, shows a lot of strength and vulnerability.
00;04;53;23 – 00;05;15;14
Unknown
So I’m so grateful for Doctor Adele, you know, always being willing to be that person, to be the voice for so many people who are suffering. And I’m going to throw just one number out at you. 1.1 million is the amount of adult illinoisans who have been impacted by problem gambling in some way or another. That’s a million people whose voices are not being heard.
00;05;15;14 – 00;05;28;17
Unknown
So thank you. For, you know, helping us to see, you know, that every story matters. So please give your attention to Doctor Adele. Thank you.
00;05;28;19 – 00;05;56;28
Unknown
So, how’s everybody doing? Good. Stomachs are full. But that was some really good food. Oh, my gosh, I challenge, that one point, 1 or 7 million that, Elizabeth referred to actually are the people who are reporting gambling problems. It does not, you know, include real with Doctor Sandra Adele, author of confessions of a Slot Machine Queen.
00;05;57;01 – 00;06;18;27
Unknown
Welcome to the show. Thank you. Give us an idea of what? What it was. What led you to write this book? First of all, the first of all, it came from, as I mentioned, from the journal entries I began to keep as I became became more and more addicted, although I didn’t know that was what was happening.
00;06;18;27 – 00;06;44;10
Unknown
Okay, at the time. But there must have been a reason why you started journaling. You must had in the back of your mind when something’s not quite right here. Actually, that was why. Yeah, I started keeping records. The something that was not quite right was what I saw in the casinos. Okay. From the very beginning, the first time I went into a casino in April 2005.
00;06;44;12 – 00;07;11;14
Unknown
What I saw disturbed me. And that was it was middle of the day, and there were lots of elderly people in the casino. They looked like zombies, you know, totally mesmerized in front of their machines. They were smoking. I remember seeing a man walking around with it. Oxygen tank. So, you know, that said to me, this person is not healthy.
00;07;11;16 – 00;07;34;27
Unknown
Right. And the environment itself was just very puzzling to me. First of all, when you go into a casino, you can’t even find your way through a bathroom to a bathroom. You have to walk through rows and rows of slot machines. It was very depressing. The the the environment. And I didn’t understand how this could be fun, right?
00;07;34;29 – 00;07;54;07
Unknown
Yeah. And I went because somebody invited me to go to the casino. She just called me at a date when I was bored. I said, let’s go for a ride. Well, the ride from Madison, Wisconsin to, Ho-Chunk casino all along highway 12 is very pretty sure. And I’m an outdoorsy person. Okay. And that was the other thing walking out.
00;07;54;07 – 00;08;21;12
Unknown
It was a beautiful day. And walking into this dark place that didn’t smell good. It’s thank I say stank, not stink. Stunk. It was just the whole thing was disturbing to me. So from the very beginning, I was in a place that I didn’t like. Found no, pleasure out of it, but then somehow got hooked, right?
00;08;21;14 – 00;08;45;00
Unknown
And that getting hooked was that first, you know, thousand dollar win that I got. I’ll take that in 100 and $1,000 bills, I said as I landed my hand, my voucher to the man behind the cashier’s counter. The Queen had done it again. This is another thing. You know. We have delusions about ourselves. So I was winning these little jackpots, you know, for $100 here, $300 there.
00;08;45;05 – 00;09;05;22
Unknown
I thought the thing was my personality. Yeah. Little thing. That stuff started happening. So I was a queen of slot machines. Okay, so I had done it again. I hadn’t been in the casino more than 30 minutes and had won $1,011 on a ten times play machine. The cashier counted out ten crisp hundred dollar bills, 110 and a single.
00;09;05;25 – 00;09;26;28
Unknown
Oh, by the way, they those dollar, those hundred dollar bills are like, really fresh, like lube. I stopped the single with some change, from my pocket in, in, in the guy’s chip box and neatly folded the hundreds in a little leather wallet. I used to keep my gambling money from my separate from my real money.
00;09;26;28 – 00;09;52;16
Unknown
Because money changes value in the casino. You know, it’s the casino’s money. As long as you’re gambling, when you start losing your money. And then, having lost. Let’s see. I think it was $1,200. Maybe not $1,000, because that $1,200, then you have to pay taxes on it. So I didn’t pay taxes on this. And anyway, maybe $1,000, but I played back 200 of that and lost it, and I couldn’t understand this.
00;09;52;16 – 00;10;19;14
Unknown
Yeah. It’s like, this is weird. I had $1,000 in my hand and I gave a machine back $200, so I worried me. But the whole environment was. Is very depressing. It’s not healthy. I didn’t understand at the time that casinos, marketed very heavily to older people during the day. That’s why you saw so many older people during the day, right?
00;10;19;17 – 00;10;41;19
Unknown
And so I just began taking notes because, frankly, I thought I was going to bring down the whole gambling industry. I was going to expose what was happening first. That didn’t work. Right. And then what? As things continued, as I continued going to the casino and writing about it, I was also writing about how I felt had.
00;10;41;19 – 00;11;03;04
Unknown
And there was a point where I began begin to become very disgusted with myself. Okay. Because I was losing money at first, I started winning money. But these are small sums of money a couple of times $6,000, which is a lot of money. Right? Then then the losses were happening and I did not need the money. I did not need to go gambling to make money.
00;11;03;07 – 00;11;30;11
Unknown
My bills were always paid. Right. And so the whole experience, I didn’t understand it. And so that’s part of why I was taking writing this journal. Okay. Part of that, the other part was to find out what was happening with all the money, with all the revenue that the casinos bring in, with all the money that the the lottery brings in their tax revenues attached to that, each state has to set aside X number of millions of dollars for K-12 education.
00;11;30;11 – 00;11;54;08
Unknown
And, you know, and social services and so forth. And it’s like, what’s happening to the money? If that’s the case, why are, you know, schools in such, you know, terrible sure shape. So all of these things were the intellect. That was the intellectual side. But there was this other side going on and this this me, this person that’s going into the casino and putting money in the machine.
00;11;54;10 – 00;12;11;21
Unknown
And this would be two and $300 at a time. Sometimes I would only go once a week, sometimes not for a month, but then I’d go in maybe three times a week, but I’m putting two and $300 in the machine at a time. I’m sorry, but that’s a lot of money for ordinary people. Yeah. You know, and so that was the issue.
00;12;11;21 – 00;12;28;26
Unknown
I didn’t understand what was happening to me. Okay. And the more I went, the sicker I felt, the more I hated myself. And I write in my journal. You can see some of the handwriting when I look at some of the handwriting. Now, when I would come home, it was like, I hate myself. Why am I doing this?
00;12;28;26 – 00;13;04;05
Unknown
I’m disgusted. Yeah, and it’s like a drunk, drunk, that drunk person’s handwriting. And so that’s how some of this began. The story began. But the story also because I could not find anybody in the black community who was talking publicly, speaking publicly about gambling addiction, and certainly not black women. I felt that I needed to tell this story, and I still feel that tremendous sense of urgency now, especially now that we’re on the threshold of getting high gambling where, you know, casino games are going to be on everybody’s phones all across the country, right?
00;13;04;08 – 00;13;38;26
Unknown
Yeah, it’s mind blowing. We’ve seen what sports gambling has done, on everyone’s phone. Everybody can access it 24 seven. Yeah. And now we’re going to push everything, all capabilities out. I think it’s very interesting, though, that, that that you started journaling you and you took a very academic approach to what was going on, which makes a lot of sense then, because you are in academia as a professor at UW University of Wisconsin, right.
00;13;38;28 – 00;14;09;06
Unknown
And, but the self-awareness that gradually came to you through that process, I think you’re fortunate because not everybody, not everybody gets to that point where they have the self-awareness to understand, hey, something’s not right here. Yeah, something’s not right. But I don’t think it was self-awareness because I didn’t understand what was happening. We’re talking about 2005. From 2005 to 2009.
00;14;09;08 – 00;14;35;03
Unknown
And in the chapter that I, that I read a little bit from those time in slot machines, those training slot machines, have generated in the first few months of business $17 million over ten years, and 70% of the revenue was coming from slot machines. So it’s not, you know, you know, there’s, he’s a mathematician. He knows this stuff, with the algorithm rhythms and everything.
00;14;35;10 – 00;14;55;11
Unknown
That’s how much money 70% of the of the, revenue comes from slot machines. Not the games, not the food and all this other stuff. I think it’s in that section. I got a lot of notes and stuff. I think it’s in that section where I also talk about how things shifted with Facebook when when Facebook started up, it’s too late, late 2006 or late.
00;14;55;12 – 00;15;16;18
Unknown
No, it’s later than that. And it changed. And what I mean by that is it changed, you know, in terms of social media, the use of social media and all of that, it changed our understanding of addiction, but not in 2005. Right. You know, I mean, and so that was the issue, how this can’t be an addiction because this is a machine, this is an inanimate thing.
00;15;16;18 – 00;15;45;02
Unknown
So something else is going on. And so I just was digging around in, you know, really some, some dense, you know, quantitative studies, what few quantitative studies I could find about gambling and, and slot machine gambling specifically to understand what was happening to me. Because I don’t I don’t I don’t get this. I cannot be addicted because it’s a machine.
00;15;45;05 – 00;16;08;15
Unknown
That’s what you know, I kept telling myself it’s in my, it’s in my journal. But we’re talking about 2005 and it’s still not very well. You know this particular addiction is not well understood. It’s a behavioral addiction. And I think most behavioral addictions are not well understood. Right. But particularly this one because and I you know I’m anti casino I’m anti-gambling.
00;16;08;15 – 00;16;37;07
Unknown
But it doesn’t matter anymore because it’s all over the place and it’s very normal. Right. And once things get normalized it’s not illegal. You know, we are encouraged to go and spend our money and lose our money. If you think about the, the advertisements that are all over the place where the winners are. So yeah, seriously, if you see the, if you can see the box of stuff that I hit, you know, collect it and the drafts that are of this that I had written.
00;16;37;07 – 00;16;59;26
Unknown
Yeah. You’d be surprised because I’m trying, I was trying to explain all this without having the expertise to do it. Like for example, an economic, you know, theory study of what was happening. I relied on other economists who were not being paid by the gambling industry. You know, to talk, to give me some language for me to understand what was happening.
00;17;00;04 – 00;17;25;05
Unknown
Even in communities like communities like this. I know what we all know what’s going to happen with this community as a community 88,000 people. It’s a small community. The, you know, the casino is going to dwarf everything in this area in terms of entertainment. So, you know, I’m still reading and still trying to understand and put some of this in ordinary language.
00;17;25;05 – 00;17;50;24
Unknown
That’s the closest I could come to it, this, this memoir, and I call it the slot machine queen. And people ask about that. Well, when I think it was in 2006, I was the Queen of hearts in a children’s theater play in Rockford at New American Theater in Rockford. And when I look at those pictures, those photos of me and the, and the cast, we’re all walking, talking symbols of gambling.
00;17;50;24 – 00;18;09;11
Unknown
I got, you know, the Queen of hearts outfit on. We have the, the soldiers and the card soldiers, and I’m the Red Queen and all of this kind of stuff. That’s where that title came from. Okay. Yeah, I like it, you know? Now you have a new book that you’re working on or is it recently published? No, I’m working on it.
00;18;09;11 – 00;18;41;13
Unknown
It’s called And then the Casinos came Black women’s Narratives of gambling addiction recovery. Okay. And this is where my voice, I’m trying to move my voice back, that this is, you know, kind of a narrative thing where mine is not the dominant voice in it because I’m. I’m, including in the, in the, you know, a discussion about gambling, slot machine gambling, the lottery, scratch offs, and now I gambling around the stories of seven black women.
00;18;41;16 – 00;19;06;01
Unknown
Okay. Who I’ve interviewed. So what I’m working on now is shaping those narratives, with my own critique. For example, this whole section, those, chime in slot machines. That’s chapter four. And that chapter, I talk about those, you know, I mentioned those big towering, machines. But I also talk about how they’re developed and how they’re built.
00;19;06;03 – 00;19;26;29
Unknown
There’s a book by Natasha Schultz called Addiction by Design, which she published in 2013. And it’s quite a dense work. It’s the most comprehensive study of, of slot machine gambling and the casino industry, period that I know of. It took her almost ten years to write that, she was out in Las Vegas off and on, you know?
00;19;26;29 – 00;19;50;24
Unknown
I mean, she’s a, you know, university professor. We don’t continually do all of that work. But, it was published in 2013, and she talks about how the algorithms, she talks about the structure of the, the machines, how, when it went from mechanical reels to video reels, the difference it made, why we don’t have the pull down anymore, you know, the the one arm bandit.
00;19;50;24 – 00;20;23;06
Unknown
It’s not efficient. And efficiency is is is crucial. The that people who design the casino, the machines, design them to keep people in their seats play to extinction. That’s the language that she said. People who she interviewed out in, Las Vegas used that play to explain to extinction. Okay. You know, she also because she interviewed people who, work for international gaming technology to the designers, American Gaming Association.
00;20;23;06 – 00;20;50;05
Unknown
And it’s important to note that, there is, it’s Harvard Medical School. There is a gambling studies center there. They’re funded by both the International Gaming Technology and American Gaming Association. So my question about that is you’re funding, you’re being funded, you’re doing all this research on the brain and all this stuff in gambling, but you’re funded by the very industry that creates the machines, right?
00;20;50;07 – 00;21;09;04
Unknown
So, you know, so those are some things that maybe I have to do a separate paper on something because it I have to pull back a little bit of this so that the stories, the personal stories and the personal narratives of the women are foregrounded. And you see what I mean in terms of the work. Yes. It can’t be too dense now because I don’t want it to be.
00;21;09;04 – 00;21;37;26
Unknown
It’s not a purely academic project, I want it I want the people who can read this book to be able to read the next one, you know, bring it down to the personal human level. Right. So, very interesting. The, the women that came forward was this, process of soliciting for these stories, or did you just over time, you’ve had women that have come to you and shared their story forever to find the women?
00;21;37;26 – 00;22;08;16
Unknown
I’d been looking for them forever from 2005, when I started looking online or wherever I could find stuff, something. It so happened that I was invited to give a talk in, June 2021 by Elizabeth Thielen. Okay, in the Gaza. And, there was a counselor there, Brian Meister, who knew a woman named Cassandra that he had been in contact with.
00;22;08;19 – 00;22;32;05
Unknown
That was in 2001. He put me in contact with her. It took another maybe three months for her to agree to even talk to me. Okay. And that’s how I managed to meet these other women. And, but women have been contacting me ever since I was appeared on, a show. Megan Kelly lied in 2018.
00;22;32;11 – 00;22;56;10
Unknown
Well, this morning, we are kicking off a series Addicted to with a woman who is opening up about her problems with gambling and more. Sandra O’Dell became a mother as a teenager, later working her way off of welfare to become a prominent professor at the University of Wisconsin. But in 2005, she almost lost it all when one fateful trip to a Wisconsin casino nearly derailed her life.
00;22;56;10 – 00;23;16;01
Unknown
Ever since then, women have been contacting me. Just saying. They either say, you know, I’m so happy you shared the story. I have people saying I’m. I’m suffering. I just want to talk to you. I have people, women contacting me on Facebook, which I don’t really use because I’m not that much of a, you know, social media person.
00;23;16;01 – 00;23;39;28
Unknown
Sure. When I give a talk and I’ve been giving talks because because I publish this book myself, by the way, my my memoir in 2010. Well, books don’t sell themselves, right. I had to go out and promote the book. And so I was talking on public radio, public TV and so forth. And and as I was giving more talks, more women were coming privately, sending me messages saying that they’re suffering as well.
00;23;40;00 – 00;24;05;00
Unknown
It’s a serious issue, but they can’t come forth right? Yeah. And so now it’s I was telling, Elizabeth Thielen, this when I came today, I think I’m finally accepting that I really have to continue being the voice of these women, because the almost all of the women that I met in 2021 are very new in their recovery and speaking out on television or, you know, something other than a podcast.
00;24;05;00 – 00;24;34;02
Unknown
Podcasters are safe, right? That’s too difficult right now. And I’m far enough away from my experience to be able to do the work that I do. Although this was fun, I think because, you know, there was food in this this was really a special group of folks, but I’m often quite drained when I’m telling the story to, you know, to other folks like practitioners in larger or I can imagine, I can imagine this was a fantastic event.
00;24;34;02 – 00;24;58;17
Unknown
And I told Elizabeth the same thing. It was just so personable, and real. And it’s it’s hard to, it’s hard to find, a program like that. You know, you go to conferences and things like that, and it’s very sanitized. But, this was this was a good. Yeah. But, you know, the other thing was I had planned something totally different.
00;24;58;19 – 00;25;21;01
Unknown
I really wanted to talk about the, Waukegan casinos, the Waukegan casino and the and the making of the all the inner works, works of it at the slot machines. Right until I saw the audience. Oh. I need to switch gears real fast and just share the story. And that’s another thing that I. That I’ve gotten better with.
00;25;21;05 – 00;25;41;23
Unknown
Yeah. I just, I was at the National Council for Black Studies last week. And that was probably the worst presentation I ever gave, because I was trying to fit it into more of an academic thing. And the section I was reading just wasn’t to tell you quite I it was an appropriate for the panel that I was put on.
00;25;41;26 – 00;26;02;18
Unknown
And so I just decided that that’s probably not the best venue I know. It’s not the best venue, not for right now, because these are people who are not engaged with gambling or recovery, you see. So that’s the other thing. All of the presentations I’ve given so far, with the exception of being on radio and making Kelly live and that was scary.
00;26;02;18 – 00;26;26;07
Unknown
That was 2018. That was a live show. I’m going on a live talk show. But there was preparation prior to this, like maybe a month prior. They contacted me. I was contacted because I, a few months prior to that, I had been featured in a New York Times article about, older women and gambling in their business section.
00;26;26;09 – 00;26;45;13
Unknown
So that’s, you know, once you get into that thing, they folks can find you. And so I watched the, Megan Kelly Show, and I thought, okay, it sounds kind of, you know, whatever. Her politics, that’s another thing I’m getting on this national TV show. This gives me a huge platform to talk about black women and gambling.
00;26;45;16 – 00;27;10;21
Unknown
And so, but it had to be on my terms. And so when first, when the producer contacted me and asked me would I be on the show and, and I was told that they were doing a series on gambling, on addictions, I needed to know specifically what they wanted. And I set the parameters. For example, they wanted to know if I would send some photos of my children when they were small.
00;27;10;21 – 00;27;32;06
Unknown
You know that story about me? Yeah. You know, and I said, no, would you, allow us to would you, bring some of your children and have them in the audience with you when, you know, I mean, there were all of these things, and I just said, no, it’s like it was like you. It’s either me or I don’t have to be on the show.
00;27;32;08 – 00;27;55;24
Unknown
But I also talked to two women who are counselors, and we chatted about this and it was like, what is the objective? This is a an opportunity to get on a national show, national TV show, which a whole lot of people watch sometimes when they’re vacuuming their kitchens or rooms and whatever. And present this issue about black women and gambling addiction.
00;27;55;27 – 00;28;22;01
Unknown
That was the goal, the objective. And it went well. But I’ll tell you, when I got to New York, I called a friend and said, I wish I hadn’t done this. It’s too late now. But but the other part of it was just having this objective, you know, and knowing that I had the support of two women who were were addiction, you know, gambling counselors that I had met a few years earlier that we had talked about it.
00;28;22;04 – 00;28;44;04
Unknown
And it’s the moment I got off that show they were watching. They were on the phone with me. Are you okay? Okay, yeah. This is most comfortable because, you know what I mean? Is what we’re doing here, right? And being with Nicastro, because Elizabeth has been a crucial, you know, person in terms of connecting me with the black women.
00;28;44;06 – 00;29;08;02
Unknown
I’ve been looking for them for over 12 years. Okay? You know, and that just making that one contact. Now, how did this happen? That had everything to do with Covid? When everything shut down, women who were in gambling, anonymous meetings went online. And so this one woman said, well, she was online and she saw online another black woman, and she contacted her.
00;29;08;04 – 00;29;34;25
Unknown
And that led to them contacting a few others because they could see. Right, right, you know, and them forming their own group. And so among the other things that, and I’m probably rambling all over the place, but I get an opportunity to talk about this project, this it works in the works. Another project, thing that I need to work on is this whole notion about recovery routes to recovery is going to be the last chapter because 12 step groups don’t work for everybody.
00;29;34;25 – 00;29;53;04
Unknown
It never worked for me. There are a lot of women that are contacting me. They have nowhere to go because they don’t do 12 steps. They don’t want to be in a 12 step program. Some of them don’t want to quit gambling. They just want to not destroy their lives. They want to, you know, be able to control it, which is another whole issue.
00;29;53;04 – 00;30;16;06
Unknown
So this whole notion of mitigating harm, which comes out of HIV, it comes out of the substance abuse. And prior to that, yeah, the, you know, the needle exchange and all of that. That’s where harm reduction comes from. I’m reading a book about that now. What helped me so much was that I have a, you know, a very active professional life.
00;30;16;09 – 00;30;37;27
Unknown
You know, I love the theater. I love being outdoors, you know, the arts and all of this stuff. And I love my teaching. And I think that that helped me, helped bring me back from the brink because I was, like, really on the brink. Okay. And now I can enjoy more fully these other things because, you know, life intrudes.
00;30;37;27 – 00;30;57;03
Unknown
Anyway, we got stuff that happens, you know, we got to be able to deal with. We got families, you got friends, you know, stuff you don’t like, people you don’t like, all of that. It’s a matter of, you know, of of managing. Yeah. And just trying to live more fully without something that was, you know, designed to just bring me down.
00;30;57;03 – 00;31;38;29
Unknown
And it brought me down fast. Right. And that’s fortunate in a way, because I didn’t lose everything. Well, that’s fortunate to the, the self-awareness that you had to to recognize I still you know, we’ll go back to where we started with journaling everything. I think, you know, at least me sitting here hearing your story, to me, that seems like one of the key key points for you was having that record to go back and look at and start to, what’s what’s the word I’m looking for, where you start to break it down right at some point, break and decompose, I guess, or, deconstruct, deconstruct the word.
00;31;39;01 – 00;32;07;08
Unknown
So for decomposing the decompose yet. Yes. That’s right. That’s the later that comes later. It’s coming too soon. But fantastic. Really enjoyed your presentation this evening. It was a pleasure meeting you. And, thank you for joining us in the studio here. Thank you. And then our friend and frequent guest, Elizabeth Thielen from cancer came into the studio to wrap things up.
00;32;07;09 – 00;32;36;14
Unknown
Third time for most frequent guest. All right. Do I win something? I’m super competitive. I’ll give you one of these. Okay. I’ll take it. Notebooks. What? What’s your takeaway? After listening to Doctor Adele, every time I hear Doctor Adele speak, I come away like, more. It’s somewhat speechless because it’s, the way that she shares her story and the stories of others that she’s collected is just really impactful.
00;32;36;16 – 00;32;58;04
Unknown
This is something that, as she said, is a hidden addiction, a silent addiction. And so nobody is talking about it, nobody is seeing it, but it’s real and it hurts and it’s lonely and it’s, you know, painful. And she, you know, helps people to feel that and to know that. So, the crowd was captivated, as always.
00;32;58;04 – 00;33;31;03
Unknown
And the question and answer are just kept going and going. So I kept going, okay, well thank you. And then there’s another question which was really indicative of how, you know, energized people are when they hear this. Well, one thing she does sugarcoat anything. No. Yeah. So, so it’s very real and raw. And I think that resonates with people, especially when you come in a community like Waukegan here, who’s battling with a current issue where a new casino is on its way, with temporary housing right now.
00;33;31;05 – 00;33;50;04
Unknown
Right. There’s a lot of raw emotion here about people are conflicted. Right. What, this. So, yeah. And I and I think it’s good to talk about that. It is. We have to. Right. Yeah. We have to talk about it because it being hidden means that more people who might be vulnerable, could fall prey to problematic gambling.
00;33;50;04 – 00;34;13;12
Unknown
And we know by the statistics that not everybody who gambles is going to develop a problem. Right. But if those who have an increased risk compared to the, you know, general community don’t even know that it exists and they don’t know that they’re at risk, that’s a problem. And so having these kinds of events, you know, allows people to have those conversations, know about it.
00;34;13;13 – 00;34;37;25
Unknown
Like nobody should be caught off guard by this. But most people who do suffer from gambling disorder didn’t know about it prior to it getting them. Well, yeah, of course. I think this really highlights the type of event that I think can be very impactful. This is a true grassroots arts event that that you all put together here.
00;34;37;25 – 00;35;08;28
Unknown
And I appreciate the fact that we were able to participate in that because I think it’s, it’s eye opening. Right? At least for me. It’s very it’s very different than, it’s an unvarnished look at this subject. Right. And, I think a lot of the events that, that I’ve been involved in, Are polished. Right. And it’s not you’re not getting the raw emotion that we saw on display here.
00;35;08;28 – 00;35;41;24
Unknown
Right. And we need that because that’s the real experi variance of people who experience gambling harm. And so to have that in this community, at a community center, this is the Northern Illinois Recovery Community Organization. And so we have just community members, we have recovering people here. And, you know, hearing this, given that people in recovery from substance use, mental health conditions are one of those at risk groups and are one of those groups of people who could just unwittingly bring gambling into their life and not recognize that there’s an even higher risk for them.
00;35;41;24 – 00;36;02;11
Unknown
So it’s really important that it’s here and at this time, and getting people talking about it so they can make informed decisions about whether or not to participate in gambling and if, if they choose to, you know, knowing kind of what to look out for and where to turn for help. Right? Yeah. So important, tell me, how did how did you all get together on this?
00;36;02;11 – 00;36;25;18
Unknown
I mean, what was the process that you kind of got the idea for this event and how you would at least portray this event? Yeah. I don’t even know if that’s a fair way to characterize it, but you had to conceptualize it on some level, right? Yeah. So, the the theme for Problem Gambling Awareness Month is Every Story Matters.
00;36;25;19 – 00;36;50;05
Unknown
And who is telling the story of people impacted by problem gambling? Almost nobody but Doctor Dallas. And she’s that’s what she’s known for. She’s one of the few brave people who has come out and said, this happened to me. This is what I experienced. And she creates a safe space for other people to tell their story, in particular women and in particular women of color.
00;36;50;07 – 00;37;11;05
Unknown
Right. And so, you know, these are not easy things to talk about, let alone just talk about publicly. So it completely made sense with the theme for this year to bring in Doctor Dallas so she could tell her story, but also, you know, share some of the stories that she has compiled in the safe spaces that she’s created.
00;37;11;07 – 00;37;42;21
Unknown
Yeah, yeah, well, very well done. Both you and and Mary putting this together. Well, thank you. And that you guys came out. I think it really well, I really appreciate the collaboration and all. You’re you’re an excellent podcast host. You make it very comfortable. And we do such a fantastic job. But but I hope you realize that one of the things that you’re doing is you’re taking something like this that can have an impact right here, but expand that impact to every single listener and know that this is happening in everybody’s backyard.
00;37;42;23 – 00;38;12;19
Unknown
People, who may not know of the risk or getting involved in getting hurt and, you know, by, you know, expanding the reach of an event like this, you know, this could be saving lives. Yeah. Much appreciated. Yeah, definitely. Definitely. You know, one thing, one thing that you mentioned today and I’ve not heard you mention this before, and I wrote it down, you were talking about the accessibility in 24 over seven with your phone.
00;38;12;19 – 00;38;31;20
Unknown
Yes. On your bedside table. Yeah. And I can go on and on, and I’ve done it before, and I’ll just go on and on and on and say, oh, you know, in your car and in the in the pew at church and at your grandmother’s birthday party, you know, and at your anniversary dinner. And I could just go on and on until people are just like, what is she doing?
00;38;31;20 – 00;38;49;05
Unknown
Because that’s where it is, and that’s when it is. There is no place or time that you can’t gamble now. And, for anybody to say that, that doesn’t increase the risk. Is it sure naive and and frankly, insulting. Yeah. I’ve, I’ve talked to people that say, you know, I take it with me into the bathroom. Right? Right.
00;38;49;06 – 00;39;14;00
Unknown
Yeah. Locked away. Right. Absolutely. So, with that just does come increased risk in knowing that our, our currency is now digital as well. And and the way that we can get money is digital, right. Like people can apply for loans on their phone. Right. You’re gambling on your phone. So everything is just so connected now that people are getting caught off guard and the devastation is accumulating.
00;39;14;00 – 00;39;39;24
Unknown
Really fast, the hidden nature of this, that somebody can be struggling with it for so long and the the consequences can be so great by the time that it’s discovered, you know, we can have people who are losing their homes. You have people who could be facing criminal prosecution due to gambling related crime. And all of these things are the kinds of things that can contribute to the extremely high suicide rate amongst problem gamblers.
00;39;39;24 – 00;39;58;01
Unknown
So, when it is so hidden, when the person themselves doesn’t even know what’s happening or why, and they don’t know that there’s help. This is one of the reasons it’s so high. So getting the word out. Yes. This exists. No, you’re not weak, you’re responsible or stupid. There’s reasons this happened to you and there’s help. One 800 gambler.
00;39;58;01 – 00;40;32;25
Unknown
Are you really winning.com? You know we can’t say it enough. Yeah. All right, all right, you guys, thanks for the work. You do. We love hearing from you. So please take a moment to, like, share and comment on our podcast. You can reach out to us directly via email at wager Danger at Gateway foundation.org. Look for us on Facebook and Twitter at recover gateway on LinkedIn at gateway Dash Foundation, or through our website at Gateway foundation.org.
00;40;32;28 – 00;40;58;29
Unknown
Wager danger is supported through funding, in whole or in part through a grant from the Illinois Department of Human Services and the Division of Substance Use Prevention and Recovery. And remember, recovery is a lifelong process. If you are a family member, is struggling with a gambling problem. Call gateway at (844) 975-3663 and speak with one of our counselors for a confidential assessment.
