- September 06, 2024
- Gambling
“It’s my hope that we can erase the stigma and shame so women will feel safe seeking the help they need without fear of judgement” – Broke Girl Society founder, Christina Cook.
The BGS offers a “judgement free zone” for women in recovery from problem gambling. Christina recognized early in her own journey that what she craved most was deep connections with other women who had walked a similar path. It’s in this spirit that she set about establishing a safe environment for women to share and compare their unique stories.
The Broke Girl on X: @BrokegirlCr
Call Gateway Foundation: 855-723-0963
Gambling Problem? Call 1-800-GAMBLER
Facebook: @RecoverGateway
Instagram: @recovergateway
Twitter/X: @RecoverGateway
LinkedIn: @Gateway-Foundation
Transcript:
00;00;00;00 – 00;00;26;19
Unknown
I would rather be curious about what could help somebody than being judgmental about how they should do it. Welcome to another episode of Wager Danger. I’m your host, Shane Cook. Gambling Disorder program director at Gateway Foundation, joining me today is Christina Cook. And no, we’re not related. Christina is the creator of The Broke Girl Society or big business of members might say.
00;00;26;21 – 00;01;02;17
Unknown
It’s a community of women that have experienced problem gambling and actively engaged to support each other through podcasts and a robust Facebook group. Christina is curated a supportive environment for women to share their vulnerabilities and struggles while simultaneously offering a safe haven that fosters encourage and hope with a relentless passion and unfettered curiosity. Christina is making real difference in people’s lives and offering the women of BGS the opportunity for tremendous breakthroughs and rediscovered joy.
00;01;02;20 – 00;01;28;06
Unknown
It’s wonderful to have you join us. Welcome to the show, Christina. Thank you so much for having me on. Yeah, we talked about doing this a few times in the past when we met and we finally made it happen. So I appreciate you taking some time out and sharing your story with us. I really, in looking at what you’ve been able to create, you’ve got a podcast that you’ve been doing now for several years.
00;01;28;08 – 00;01;52;10
Unknown
You’ve also built an online community, and I’d really like to explore that a little bit in terms of, you know, which started the process. Was it podcast first? Was it the online community? And even at some point here, you’ve got a new program that you’ve just rolled out, which is Foundations of Recovery, which is a little more short form, I believe, in terms of the messaging.
00;01;52;12 – 00;02;22;08
Unknown
And that one looks very interesting too. So I really kind of want to explore all of this with you and really hear your story. Yeah, I’m happy to share kind of how all this started for me. Sometimes it feels, you know, I’ve shared this part of my story so much, it kind of feels like it reverts back to a CliffsNotes version of it, because, you know, my my gambling has been part of my life for, you know, it was part of my life for about 15 years before recovery actually started for me.
00;02;22;11 – 00;02;49;15
Unknown
And so when I finally entered what I call recovery, because it was I had a period of abstinence right before and abstinence wasn’t going to work for me. But at the time, I didn’t know that recovery was even a thing. So when I finally entered recovery in March of 2021, I knew in order for this to work like I was going to need support, I was going to need help and all these things.
00;02;49;15 – 00;03;17;27
Unknown
So that’s when I really, you know, I entered the rooms of DEA. I was went to G for about a year into my recovery. And what I noticed in Gaelic, it was great to be surrounded by people who understood what I was going through, people who had struggled with gambling harm in their own journey. But I was in a room full of men and it was and they were kind and I didn’t.
00;03;17;28 – 00;03;41;20
Unknown
There wasn’t anything wrong with that. I just knew I needed more support, more understanding on maybe a female level. And so I started initially early on looking like online. Even the podcasts that I was listening to were predominantly male. You know, I just was hearing a lot of a lot of male perspective in this space, and I wasn’t finding a lot of female perspective in the space.
00;03;41;23 – 00;04;07;24
Unknown
And I really wanted to listen to Peop to other people’s stories and connect on the on just the experience of struggling with gambling and trying to figure out, you know, trying to repair the relationship damages the friend damages like all of these things and maybe a different a different way than I was experiencing. And so, you know, I wasn’t finding that I wasn’t finding women talking about overcoming gambling in the space.
00;04;07;27 – 00;04;24;24
Unknown
I was on social media. I was looking for like different different things that could be inspirational in me. I’m a very like, I love quotes, I love inspiring and motivational kind of stuff. It’s very prominent in my own recovery. And so I thought, Well, you know what? Maybe I’ll just start sharing my journey and maybe I’ll be able to connect in that way.
00;04;24;24 – 00;04;59;27
Unknown
If I just start sharing what I’m going through, maybe somebody else will reach out and say, Hey, I’m going through this, too. You know, we go through this together. And so I started posting on social media, like really early on, within like 30 days of me starting recovery, I started kind of sharing, Hey, I remember doing a post that like a little video of sharing my ninth payday without, like gambling and just kind of sharing these little tidbits or sharing when I got my 90 day keychain from Jay and just kind of sharing that and it kind of started getting some traction and I was starting to have people respond in that way.
00;04;59;27 – 00;05;23;08
Unknown
And I had someone reach out to me who did a podcast on like the 12 Steps and beyond. And part of her story was gambling recovery. She does the Ambitious Addicts podcast and she reached out to me and asked me if I would come on her podcast and share. And I was I did and I podcast had already been part of my recovery through Brian Hatch’s podcast.
00;05;23;09 – 00;05;44;09
Unknown
Sure. The All in the Addicted Gamblers podcast and then Jamie’s Salzburg’s podcast after is it after gambling? And so like those had already been kind of like I was already listening to those and doing that. And so when she reached out, I was like, okay, this is nerve wracking, but sure, I’ll do it. And I loved the experience.
00;05;44;09 – 00;06;07;21
Unknown
I loved the feeling of talking to her, sharing in our experience of overcoming the challenges of gambling, our behaviors while we were gambling, the impact, all of those things. I really enjoyed the experience and I love that she’s actually a really good friend of mine. Now. We’ve collab a lot together, but I left that feeling like this is something maybe I could do.
00;06;07;27 – 00;06;28;26
Unknown
Like this is something. Maybe I could. I could start sharing my own journey and, and maybe eventually have other women come on and share their, their journey. And so that was kind of the beginning of that. So the podcast, to answer your earlier question, the podcast came before the group. Okay. And so that’s kind of the start of the podcast.
00;06;28;28 – 00;07;02;21
Unknown
So when you finally made that decision because it’s not an easy one to, to make a decision to kind of put yourself out there and start telling your story, you recognize this is a way to get more information out there so people can listen to, you know, your second thought as well as anybody going to listen. Right. But at least, you know, the first part is this is something that I think can be beneficial if we put this content out there and people can find it, it might be helpful.
00;07;02;21 – 00;07;28;05
Unknown
Right. So but it does it it takes a little bit of courage to go out and at least start. Right. I mean, how was it that first podcast that you did? goodness. The first the very first episode is just a short clip of me in the middle of the night, because this is at a time in my life where my emotions were so all over the place, just, you know, I was still just trying to navigate.
00;07;28;07 – 00;07;47;17
Unknown
I was I was coming out of survival mode, right? I started my podcast three months into my recovery. wow. So if you can imagine where I was in this thing now, only to be so early in recovery and still be struggling in so many areas of my life. But it was the one thing that felt very I was very sure of like if that makes sense.
00;07;47;17 – 00;08;06;11
Unknown
Like there was a lot going on in my life that was just very up in the air and very like, you know, just a lot of moving parts, a lot of trying to figure stuff out, a lot of trying to fix stuff. Sure. Therapy appointments, you meetings like my own, like just focusing on recovery. I was struggling in my relationship at the time.
00;08;06;14 – 00;08;22;18
Unknown
And so I had all these other things. But when I was doing this work and I was doing like the social media stuff, all that stuff kind of quieted down and it just felt a little bit normal, a little bit normal for me or a little bit. It just gave me a sense of peace to be able to share my vulnerability of where I’m at.
00;08;22;20 – 00;08;43;07
Unknown
And so it was a real I connected with it early on as a real big piece of my own recovery. Right. To be able to just share my vulnerability, share my struggles, but also share, hey, this is getting better the further I get away from that last bit. And I like to say the further that I get away from stopping that bleeding, the healing really starts, you know?
00;08;43;07 – 00;09;02;18
Unknown
And so it was it was all of that for me. But that first episode, it was in the middle of the night. It was major. I’m in Oklahoma and we have tremendous thunderstorms here, and it was just one of those kind of thunder storm kind of nights. And I just thought I’d been trying to figure out what my first episode should be.
00;09;02;18 – 00;09;16;11
Unknown
I put so much thought into it, thinking, it’s got to be this and it’s got to be that. And it really didn’t have to be any of that. Just kind of like you said, it’s just kind of like you show up, you share what’s going on. And so I just shared that night and that is my most listened to episode.
00;09;16;11 – 00;09;36;22
Unknown
And it’s also the one that people have reached out to me the most, saying, I felt so connected to you in just that one episode, you know, just feeling that vulnerability, feeling that hope, feeling those kinds of things. And, you know, that’s very memorable to me. I just celebrated three years of the podcast and I reflected on that on that episode.
00;09;36;25 – 00;10;15;25
Unknown
Yeah, that’s fantastic. Well, and and everything you’ve described there provided you a sense of control at a time when you were really searching for a sense of control and or at least that’s what I took away from how you describe it. So I can see where that’s very empowering. You just mentioned three years. You’ve had the 100 episodes now, which is a huge milestone and great episode there because you had bunch a bunch of women come back and join you who had been previous guests and you’ve built relationships with over the years.
00;10;15;27 – 00;10;50;05
Unknown
So I really enjoyed that. That was a fantastic episode and encourage everybody to go out and listen to that one too. So. All right, let’s shift gears a little bit, because we were talking about the Facebook group that you started, which was carried the first foray and what has that allowed you to learn or how has that helped you feel and how has it helped others and how many people is it helping today?
00;10;50;07 – 00;11;10;22
Unknown
Yeah, so that kind of was the next piece of once I started the podcast, I started getting, you know, just a lot of a lot of messages, a lot of kind of So I was doing a lot of work in the evenings, responding to messages, trying to to help people. And I thought, okay, this is not going to be something that I can do long term.
00;11;10;22 – 00;11;30;05
Unknown
Right? It was taking a lot of a lot of space mentally to engage and do these things. And though I wanted to do that, it’s still a very important part of my work today. I wanted it just kind of reminding or not reminding me. It just kind of let me know that there’s a need for more support for women, right?
00;11;30;05 – 00;11;59;09
Unknown
Which this was always kind of my goal is just trying to to find more support for women. Women. And I didn’t necessarily set out to be the face of like women who gamble or anything like that. It was never like, this is what I want to do. But there was a sense of tremendous purpose from the time that I started doing the social media stuff, started the the podcast, like when I talk about that piece, there’s also a very profound purpose in there.
00;11;59;12 – 00;12;16;06
Unknown
Just kind of let me know that everything that I had been through the previous 15 years, there was a reason for it, right? Like I had to. I had to make it. I had to understand why I was struggling so hard and why I did the things that I did. And and all these there had to have been a reason for it.
00;12;16;06 – 00;12;34;06
Unknown
And so for me, it was really finding my purpose in all of this. And so the next thing for that was I’m going to create a space for all these women that that I’m talking to to come together and support each other. Right? It doesn’t just have to be me and one person. It can be me and all these people.
00;12;34;06 – 00;13;06;09
Unknown
And so I started the book Girl Society Facebook Group. And once I did that, I mean, it was slow going because I didn’t advertise it. I didn’t say, Hey, there’s this group for women. I kept. I wanted to keep it as safe as possible. So I kind of just let it organically grow. As people say on the podcast, you know, then they would find the groups are like as we’re kind of got out and the podcast grew and clinicians started kind of utilizing the podcast to help their clients and things like So it’s just kind of organically grown over the last three years.
00;13;06;09 – 00;13;28;10
Unknown
And now we’re, I think just surpassed 2300 women in there. And I know it doesn’t seem like if somebody is listening to 300 women isn’t a lot, but for a niche, you know, for a niche podcast for that’s for women who struggle with gambling, harm it. You know, you look at that number and you’re like, Man, I wish it wasn’t so many.
00;13;28;11 – 00;13;53;28
Unknown
You know what I mean? Like, I wish there weren’t so many struggling with this issue and having to seek support. But I’m grateful that there’s a space and I remember early on just still being very much trying to interact with every single post, trying to really offer that support. And one of the most beautiful things that have really caught up with me in this journey is just now I like before I can even comment on somebody’s posts.
00;13;53;28 – 00;14;17;22
Unknown
There might be other 12 other women who have stepped in and they’ve commented on this woman’s posts, they’ve given her support, they’ve given her comfort, they’ve, you know, validated her feelings, all of these things. And I just remember the first time that I had an instance of like, wow, like, I’m the last one to this party here. It was just one of the most beautiful moments of my life to see that something that I thought, I don’t know what’s going to happen with this.
00;14;17;22 – 00;14;49;06
Unknown
I have no expectations of this. And then it just continues to grow and respond and be a place of healing. That’s yeah, that’s right. Very truly. A support group. And when people are jumping in and and helping each other out. So you touched on this earlier when you were participating in gay meetings and you may still be. That’s the point of the question here.
00;14;49;08 – 00;15;22;12
Unknown
It’s more you mentioned that there is there’s a fundamental difference and a need that you felt needed to be met by creating a safe space for women. And so what is the uniqueness in the recovery for women and having that space for women to congregate and share their feelings and and support each other, that that you don’t necessarily get in a coed environment?
00;15;22;14 – 00;15;44;02
Unknown
Yeah, I think you know, that’s a real it’s I’m trying I always try to answer this question in the most middle of the road way possible or the most respectful way possible is that a lot of times I know for myself when I was in the rooms and she was no longer part of my like, I don’t go to gay meetings regularly, it’s still a part of my recovery.
00;15;44;02 – 00;16;04;02
Unknown
It still, you know, I work the steps with my sponsor through G. So but it’s not something that I attend regularly anymore. But in those early days, you know, a woman would come in occasionally in the meetings, but it was just myself and generally three other guys and they all had several years of recovery. Their life looked very different.
00;16;04;02 – 00;16;28;18
Unknown
They were later in ages, so their life was very different from mine. My marriage was falling apart like all of these things. So there was this very big disconnect in like, like, yeah, they were very fatherly and they were just like, they’re, they’re, you know, it’s going to get better. And it was like at that point, yes, I was I was going to therapy and getting my emotional needs kind of treated and but I still wanted more support.
00;16;28;19 – 00;16;51;08
Unknown
Like a 35 minute meeting wasn’t enough for me. And so I think the difference in these spaces of four that are specific for women is just kind of getting a little bit deeper in what’s going on, a little deeper support, and also just that complete understanding, because as women we tend to be caregivers, we tend to be nurturers, we tend to be all these things.
00;16;51;10 – 00;17;20;17
Unknown
You know, we keep the house, the home. There’s there’s a different sometimes set of responsibilities, I think, than it is sometimes looked at, perceived for men. You know, men have a very different set of stresses, you know, the providing and all these all these different kind of needs. Yes. Their fathers there there’s these things, too. But when you kind of compare and you kind of look at the experience like we have very different expectation is a lot of times in different roles.
00;17;20;17 – 00;17;41;12
Unknown
And so I would think that the support would look different as well. I have had a lot of conflict in like people not believing that women and men should should, you know, recover in separate spaces, that it should be a co, you know, recovery space. And I’m like, that’s great. If that works for you. There are plenty of options for that.
00;17;41;14 – 00;17;58;29
Unknown
But, you know, it’s also the kind of the darker side of that is if you take a woman who’s maybe experienced abuse, trauma, severe PTSD at the hands of a man and you say that the only safe space for her to recover is in a room that has men. Like what? What are we doing for this person? Right.
00;17;58;29 – 00;18;25;22
Unknown
We’re sending them somewhere that could be potentially traumatic and triggering and, you know, really being a deterrent to her recovery. And so it’s like that’s that’s where I see the value in spaces that are just specific to women. We can come in, we can talk about motherhood, marriage, because all of these things really, at the end of the day, impact our recovery, the impact, the work that we’re doing and how we prioritize ourselves and all of those things.
00;18;25;22 – 00;18;49;16
Unknown
So it’s it’s a very different it’s a very different vibe. I would say, you know, when you go into two different spaces and I think that that’s the beauty of of today is that we have spaces that meet all of our needs, right? We have spaces that that allow us kind of if we’re looking for a space that’s that’s co comics or men and women, great.
00;18;49;16 – 00;19;06;27
Unknown
If we’re looking for space, it’s women, great men, fellowship, great Like we get to kind of choose that if we’re looking for more of a demographic that fits our background, there’s going to be a meeting and a space available for that. So yeah, that’s kind of the beautiful part of like what’s been happening in the last few years.
00;19;07;00 – 00;19;32;21
Unknown
Yeah, makes total sense too. And I’m sure in taking this approach, I’m sure it’s presented some challenges you never thought of, right? Are there some challenges that come to mind right away? Like, Yeah, I any time you’re pulling a group of that size together, you’re going to get conflict, right? It matter if they’re all women or if they’re all men.
00;19;32;21 – 00;19;54;09
Unknown
You’re going to you’re going to come in and have some conflict at some point. So and I don’t want to I don’t want to dwell on it. But are there some things that maybe you didn’t anticipate you learn through this process and and maybe how you deal with that and overcome that within that community? okay. Yeah. Let’s let’s get into some tea here.
00;19;54;11 – 00;20;20;07
Unknown
You know, really, honestly, you know, the space I think that recovery space in general is one of the most welcoming, beautiful spaces there is. I mean, I think that step work in recovery work can can work for everybody, no matter if they’ve struggled with addiction or not. And really, in general spaces are very welcoming. I think where sometimes there’s issues is maybe how somebody chooses to recover.
00;20;20;09 – 00;20;42;22
Unknown
I think when I’m looking at conflict, it’s going to be you’ve got your hard core people who are just like, there’s no kind of a stricter way of looking at things like you’ve got you’re you’re like, this fellowship works for them, this program work for them is the only thing that works. So you so you’re going to have people with that kind of mindset and then you’re going to have people that are maybe just a little bit more.
00;20;42;24 – 00;21;10;22
Unknown
I’m trying to do this in a respectful way, but kind of more judgmental or more like they’re still working to understand their own process and how this is. I always I will always tell you, curiosity over judgment like they’re both a choice. We both get to choose. I would rather be curious about what could help somebody than being judgmental about how they should do it right And so, yeah, when it comes to conflict in that space, the two main conflicts are going to be how you work a program or recovery.
00;21;10;24 – 00;21;29;14
Unknown
And then the second is going to be just just personalities, you know. And so those are kind of the two biggest conflicts that really I can honestly say in the BGS, it’s it’s a different vibe. Like I think because my whole my whole approach to things are, let’s be open, let’s be curious. Let’s there’s no right way to do this.
00;21;29;14 – 00;21;46;15
Unknown
There’s no wrong way to do this. If you want a more structured approach, 12 steps usually really helpful in that regard. I always say treatment. You should always seek treatment with therapist. Like that’s a really good thing to pair up with. And then but also you’ve got other methods. You’ve got, you know, your recovery. Dharma is your smart recovery.
00;21;46;15 – 00;22;07;29
Unknown
You’ve got all these different programs that can be helpful. Some people choose not to do any of those and focus on harm reduction and those types of things, which I don’t really talk a lot about. Harm reduction in the BGS because of the amount of harm that I experienced and that most people experience. But I’m not against a harm reduction path.
00;22;07;29 – 00;22;26;04
Unknown
If that works for you and takes you to a place that gets you out of harm and into a healthier space, like I know there’s a percentage of people that need that. And so I’m I guess the general rule of thumb is just be respectful, be curious about somebody else’s experience. You can offer your experience and say this is what was helpful for me.
00;22;26;07 – 00;22;54;18
Unknown
Right. Could be helpful for you. But and then I guess I can add a third thing to that is people’s approach to the anonymity of the gambling recovery space. One of the biggest resistance issues that I’ve had with doing a podcast is, you know, kind of people who are more focused on the anonymity of recovery and they kind of don’t understand me living my recovery in this open outloud space.
00;22;54;20 – 00;23;23;17
Unknown
But again, it goes back to you. Do you write to me? Right? And we’ll just kind of we’ll get along just fine. But, you know, anonymity really belongs to the room. You don’t bring somebody else’s, you know, somebody else’s person. Information, stories out of a room. It’s not for you to take. And so that’s my understanding of anonymity is, you know, holding it to the rooms, keeping those people safe.
00;23;23;20 – 00;23;53;20
Unknown
Anybody that comes to my podcast is a willing participant, willingly shares their story. I never share anything that happens in the confidence of the room. And so it’s it’s you know, it’s just understanding and respecting that that boundary that’s it’s been another conflict, you know, that happens, I think when people are resistant to you to open recovery. Yeah very interesting perspective and I know there’s probably some more challenges that exist in the space.
00;23;53;22 – 00;24;28;04
Unknown
But let’s let’s shift gears a little bit. Let’s talk about the rewards. What’s some of the most rewarding interactions you’ve had? It could be the amazing friendships that you’ve developed as a result of of this community or it could be just understanding that it’s reaching other people in ways that you never thought possible before. Yeah, I think it’s just a continuously it’s just a continuous reminder that good things come from bad situations, right?
00;24;28;05 – 00;24;51;25
Unknown
Like my my experience with my own addiction and recovery. And I, I do identify as somebody with an addiction, you know, as an addict. But I’m also very respectful in how somebody decides to to, you know, acknowledge their their struggle or their issue with it. But I think it’s just continuing or continually seeing the growth in myself and my own recovery.
00;24;51;25 – 00;25;25;16
Unknown
But also I have made some of the most amazing friendships in this journey. I’ve, you know, people that I started this journey with three and a half years ago, I’m still friends with. And like, our journeys may look a little different. There might be setbacks, there might be, you know, lots of progress and growth and healing. And so it’s just it’s really beautiful to see that that I think the most impactful thing for me is when somebody comes into this space and they share their story and they’re scared and they’re, you know, I don’t know how many times I’ve seen this where somebody comes into the space and they openly do a share of where
00;25;25;16 – 00;25;44;12
Unknown
they’re at in their life and it’s it’s they’re hurting. They’re scared. There’s so much fear, you know, about what’s next, about what’s going to happen to them. And then a couple of months later, you see, hey, I’ve managed not to place a bet for 60 days and I’m feeling really good. And, you know, my spouse is talking to me again and we’re going to try and work this out.
00;25;44;12 – 00;26;02;12
Unknown
And we’ve got you know what I mean? And then to continue to see these kind of updates and these kind of growth, seeing anybody celebrate six months a year, heck, I’ll celebrate you if you’re two weeks like if you’ve met, you know, somebody who’s not managed to get two weeks and you get two weeks without placing a bet, like, let’s celebrate it.
00;26;02;14 – 00;26;50;14
Unknown
Even if it doesn’t, does it continue like to celebrate your journey and whatever way you can get, you know? So I think it’s just a lot of that just kind of really being, you know, excited about the possibility of recovery for others. Right. So I want to switch back to talking about your podcast now. You just had your 100th episode and you just put that out compared to where you started and what the idea was in your head for this podcast versus where you’ve ended up or where you are currently, I should say For you personally, what has changed or evolved during that process of creating this podcast?
00;26;50;17 – 00;27;14;07
Unknown
Well, aside from just my own healing and growth, like just, well, my equipment for one, when I first started, I remember when I was thinking about it, my mom like, I can’t remember what it was. I ended up returning like she’d got me something for Christmas and I ended up giving it to my sister. I can’t even remember what it was, but my mom said, Hey, I’ll get you something else.
00;27;14;09 – 00;27;32;23
Unknown
You know, it’ll work out. I can’t remember what the circumstance was at the time, but I didn’t really think anything of it. And then come March of that year when I was, you know, kind of March, April, I was talking to Mom and telling her I was going to do this podcast and she’s been my biggest fan, you know, since I started.
00;27;32;25 – 00;27;49;23
Unknown
And she said, Well, hey, I still owe you a Christmas gift. Can I get you a mic? And I was like, Yeah, that would be perfect, actually. And so she went out and she got me one of those fancy Yeti mikes. You know, at the time I think it was post, you know what? Everybody was kind of starting to do podcasting and things.
00;27;49;23 – 00;28;10;24
Unknown
So, you know, this Mike was really popular and I hated that. Mike I but so, but I find that because it was, it’s very hard to figure out, or at least for somebody like me, I’ve never I was I’m a Gen X, like social media was not my thing. You know, working electronics was not my thing other than booting at the computer and doing my work.
00;28;10;27 – 00;28;33;01
Unknown
So to learn all this stuff, like, even, like, how do you even do a podcast? And fortunately, my friend who had me on the podcast kind of helped me out. I didn’t do anything like she did. I had to do it differently, but so my mom got me my first mike and I got it, got it going. So I was really just I was using an old computer, not using headphones, like I didn’t know anything about any of it.
00;28;33;06 – 00;28;59;14
Unknown
And so I think the big is like when I look at like how far the the podcast now I have like a little studio with soundproofing things and you know, and then this past Christmas, my partner upgraded my whole Mike fancy arm headphones like with that has playback. I even have one of those fancy little boxes. I don’t don’t ask me what it does, but even my software is all change.
00;28;59;15 – 00;29;28;23
Unknown
Like, I’ve just learned so much more. I’ve learned how to do clips and things like that. So as far as the production side of it goes, it’s it’s does it need a lot more improvement? Sure, Sure it does. This is in my you know, like I just keep adding as I continue to grow and do this. But it’s a chore as far as just my it is it’s a journey and it’s not something and it’s something I had to learn to as a person in recovery, like I didn’t cause this problem overnight is certainly not going to fix itself overnight.
00;29;28;23 – 00;29;48;05
Unknown
So I really had to learn patience and everything. And so to be to come three years into podcasting, it was little less than three years when I got upgraded, but still it took time and to build up and make sure that I wanted to be consistent and that I wanted to continue to do this. So I’ve upgraded pretty much all of my equipment to that regard.
00;29;48;05 – 00;30;15;03
Unknown
I have like a pull down green screen, I have lighting, I’ve got all that fancy stuff. But as far as like my actual interviewing style, like I am not somebody that puts, puts a lot of thought or I’m going to be really honest prep into my interviews unless I’m interviewing somebody that is a clinician or somebody who maybe has a book coming out or, you know, I really want to go down a subject.
00;30;15;05 – 00;30;43;11
Unknown
I really like the format of my guest coming on, and it’s like two people sitting at a table drinking your favorite drink and just talking about our journey or experience. And I think that that’s that method has always been the same. I think the questions that I ask now, or maybe I’ve kind of gotten to the point of like even though I don’t prep for anything, I know what questions I want to ask beforehand and kind of get to the point a little bit quicker maybe than the earlier episodes.
00;30;43;11 – 00;31;08;05
Unknown
I’m not sure. Yeah, no, it’s great. It’s good insight. So what have been some interesting guests that you’ve had throughout the years that just, you know, one or two that really stand out? Yeah, well, I mean, there are so many for so many different reasons, but I think most people who probably listen to this are familiar with Michelle Malkin and the work that she does in this space.
00;31;08;05 – 00;31;34;03
Unknown
She is fantastic. I’m her biggest fan. Hi, Michelle. But she does a lot of really like she’s very academic in that she’s doing so much good in this space. And she I saw her post and she’s part of a bigger online group, community group that a lot of us are in. And it’s I mean, 30,000 people in this group online Facebook group.
00;31;34;06 – 00;31;52;19
Unknown
And that’s where I one of the groups I was initially in in the beginning, I still am, and I saw her write her post and it was just a beautifully written post. And so I reached out to her and this is that first probably six months of the podcast. I reached out to her and she seemed very open with her story and her story.
00;31;52;19 – 00;32;15;25
Unknown
Of course, you’ll have to go and listen to that episode if you want to know her story, it’s Michelle. And but her story consisted of, you know, her kind of her journey, obviously. Right. But it took her journey, took her to really good places, but it also took her to prison. And it but it also brought her back to this place of I don’t want to say redemption because it’s that’s not the right word.
00;32;15;25 – 00;32;40;16
Unknown
But this place of like this is why I had to go through this to get me here so that I could do be doing this good work so that I could. And her story was just so profound from start to finish. And so that’s that one just stands out to me because, you know, and through that, she’s just done so much more since that episode, like she’s really connected and really has tremendously changed the space.
00;32;40;16 – 00;33;13;00
Unknown
And so it’s like, but then there’s stories of like how because of this gambling addiction, you know, I had a story of a woman who was victimized and when she was trying to, you know, stand up for herself and get get criminal help for this, she then became victimized again because of her gambling addiction. And so I think that that one is a very, very important message, a very important episode of the stigma and shame that women in this space face.
00;33;13;02 – 00;33;32;21
Unknown
And so like for very different reasons. But, you know, the roundtable episodes are some of my favorite, too, because I get women that come on and we all get to chat and share topic based just like the 100th episode. I had women from the bigs come on and just share how it’s been helpful in their lives. Just having that community aspect, right?
00;33;32;24 – 00;33;52;21
Unknown
So for very different reasons, those. But I really enjoy clinicians coming on and helping us better understand some of our behaviors and things that are going on with us. And I think that those are always really great episodes for people listening, because I, you know, the knowledge of, of gambling addictions, harms disease disorder, how do you connect with it?
00;33;52;23 – 00;34;12;16
Unknown
Just knowing more about it, I think, gives us more understanding. And the more we know, the more we can change. And so it’s just like, you know, so it’s I’m all over the place with my with my episodes and generally I’m all over the place. But like in everything but you know, those are some of the ones that I’m.
00;34;12;18 – 00;34;38;16
Unknown
Yeah, it’s interesting to hear you say that because I would say our episodes are pretty all over the place, too. We’ve talked to people in recovery. We’ve talked to people that have programs that they’re doing, you know, whether it be online content campaigns to reach out to people that might be struggling. Yeah, it’s all different types of things.
00;34;38;16 – 00;35;11;13
Unknown
And I think it’s all beneficial in in a way that people start to understand. There’s an entire ecosystem of people at work here to kind of help define and to overcome this this particular addiction. Compulsive behavior that exists around for some people, that it exists around, that the entertainment factor of gambling, right? I mean, it’s hard to move away from.
00;35;11;13 – 00;35;50;26
Unknown
It is as looking at it as a form of entertainment, because for the majority of people, that’s the way it exists. But there is there’s a segue, as we both know, there’s a segment of people that extends beyond entertainment and becomes something else. And we have to have different outlets, different ways to reach out and at least discuss it with others and present that information in different ways for others to really start to understand it and and kind of gravitate towards reducing the harm or finding a treatment program that works for them.
00;35;50;28 – 00;36;25;20
Unknown
I mean, could be like you’ve done you’ve put together multiple outlets for people to go and support their recovery journey. And I think that’s fantastic. And the more we have, the better. So I appreciate the work that you’re doing and I know you’re also engaged in, you know, another latest effort, and we haven’t talked about foundations for recovery, but you you’re also starting to put a wrapper around all of these podcasts and other content platforms.
00;36;25;20 – 00;36;54;12
Unknown
They exist out there as a resource center for people. Can you talk about that a little bit? Yeah. So recently we had the in CPG, which is the National Council on Problem Gambling. They have an annual conference and this is a it’s a great conference like you and I usually we’ll say hi to each other there and it’s, it’s brings together all these different facets of this space.
00;36;54;12 – 00;37;23;06
Unknown
Right. You’ve got clinicians, academics, you even have industry there, you’ve got lived a lot of lived experience, show up and bring their resources and there’s we have a booth, we call it the pod because it’s it’s primarily podcasters who started it. But now we’ve kind of brought in like social media, like the Rob Rob medic who does a lot of YouTube and stuff because our overall thought process on this is like, there’s no competition in this space.
00;37;23;06 – 00;37;47;21
Unknown
It’s it’s got to be collaboration. It’s always going to be over competition. There’s not enough resources, there’s not enough, you know, things in this space that. And so as we continue to grow and continue to add more podcasts, more things to this space, we you know, we I keep sharing resources. Like I would get a lot of clinicians coming up to me saying, Hey, do you have a resource for this?
00;37;47;21 – 00;38;10;26
Unknown
Do you know of a resource for that? And so this year for in CPG, I put together, it’s called the Pod. It’s just a digital booklet and it’s just got a broad list of resources. So it’s not states but state specific, It’s not country specific. It’s just a broad like you’ve got your gamblers and recovery dot com which has meetings 24 seven all over the world you’ve got.
00;38;10;26 – 00;38;33;09
Unknown
So I put in there a couple of those known wider meeting groups hubs where you can find a meeting pretty regularly. I put together books at like whether it’s a software blocking app or whether it’s an app that like Vibe that helps you kind of learn more about your your addiction affliction disorder disease problem kind of helps you navigate that.
00;38;33;09 – 00;38;58;28
Unknown
So I put different things. I even put some self-exclusion information about how you can self exclude from the ATM network system in the U.S., which is pretty standard throughout the same. A lot of them use the same ATM networking system to do the cash, check things at the cage and then the ATM. But they have their own self-exclusion program where you can go in really self exclude to wear your cards.
00;38;59;01 – 00;39;17;25
Unknown
You can, but you have to be honest in this, right? You got to put all your cards and all your banking information and then you won’t be able to access financial transactions at the casinos. So it’s every you know, most people can’t recognize that name because if you’re a gambler that’s there quite a bit, you know that that’s the system they use.
00;39;17;27 – 00;39;38;17
Unknown
So I put those links in there. I put like software blocking links. So all of these and there’s so much more out there that’s not in this book. There’s probably podcasts that aren’t in this book, but I will it’s a live booklet that I continue to build out. It’s just minimal one person show, but I’m doing the best I can of trying to collect all of these these resources and, you know, just get them out there.
00;39;38;17 – 00;40;02;05
Unknown
So at least a clinician maybe working with a client who’s struggling can they’ll have some options, be like in between our appointments, check out these podcasts or check out this app or put these things in place, you know, because as we know in recovery, it’s a 24/7 job. And so when you’re therapist, you’ve got an hour appointment, maybe weekly at first, like what are you doing with all the rest of that time?
00;40;02;05 – 00;40;25;03
Unknown
How are you protecting yourself? How are you engaging in recovery and, you know, all these things. So I did it as an extra. I’m sure most states have their own resource guides, but I just thought it would be something that was helpful. And so that’s what I did. Yeah, that’s fantastic. And it’s something that, you know, our therapists internally utilize as part of their program as well.
00;40;25;03 – 00;40;51;01
Unknown
So they’ve kind of incorporated all the podcasts into the discussions and into part of the programs that we’re running, just so people have that additional resource available to them when they’re not in a therapy session or a group treatment session. You know, it’s just like, what do you do outside of this? You know, because it’s unfortunately, addiction is an 8 to 5.
00;40;51;08 – 00;41;10;23
Unknown
You know, it’s it’s it’s going to those urges and those triggers you’re going to have and most likely in the evenings or, you know, on the weekends when that those accesses aren’t available. So it’s like, what else can we get you to, you know, just staying engaged and moving forward and, you know, how else can we support you in this journey?
00;41;10;23 – 00;41;47;16
Unknown
And so that’s that was my thought behind it. Yeah, Well, I appreciate that. So we haven’t talked about the foundations of recovery. Let’s let’s cover that topic. What what was what was the idea behind this and what is it and what should we expect looking forward. Yeah, I’m putting you on the spot recovery. Yeah. And it’s a work in progress, so I’ll continue to put these episodes out as they continue to kind of come to me in a way because like for me it’s like I have, you know, a series of lists of things that have been really helpful in the foundation of my own recovery.
00;41;47;18 – 00;42;02;13
Unknown
And for me is I would say it’s it’s about building a life that I don’t want to escape from. So what is that going to look like? What is that going to take? Well, it’s going to take a very solid foundation to build on, Right. Because if we’re if we’re building on a shaky foundation, what is that going to mean?
00;42;02;16 – 00;42;24;22
Unknown
You know what I mean? That something’s going to go wrong, something is going to happen, and there’s no guarantee in recovery that we’re not going to have setbacks. We’re not going to be aggressive, unhealthy behavior. We’re not going to find other ways to because I look at my gambling as a form of like self-sabotage, self harm. And that just because I stop the gambling doesn’t mean that that internal behavior automatically goes away.
00;42;24;22 – 00;42;52;24
Unknown
Right. I’ve got to work on that. I’ve got to understand it. It kind of like for me, kind of jumped a little bit, went into the spending thing. You know, when I stopped gambling, I was still very fearful of money and still didn’t have a great relationship with money. And so it kind of jumped. And, you know, even now, three and a half years in recovery, I kind of look at where that self-harm, that self-sabotage kind of shows up still, even though I’ve worked on a lot of my internal issues, I’m still a human being and, you know, stuff happens.
00;42;52;24 – 00;43;21;03
Unknown
And for me now it’s a lot of self doubt, I think is where my self-sabotage is, which is a much healthier place to be, I think, than what I had done previously. But it’s still something I work on. But a lot of that was building this awareness of how do I continue to grow, continue to to stay on a path that’s healthy for me, continue to recognize when things get challenging, how I can move through them before fear stopped me in my tracks and now I look at fear as like, How can I move through this?
00;43;21;03 – 00;43;35;17
Unknown
I don’t want to let this hold me back anymore. I don’t want to, you know, even now, three and a half years in recovery, there’s still certain aspects that I’m I’m only three and a half years in recovery. I have to remind myself that like, yeah, it seems like a long time, but it’s really not in the grand scheme of things.
00;43;35;24 – 00;44;01;15
Unknown
I had 15 years of harm and that’s not all going to go away in just a few years. So it’s like there’s still financial things that I’m navigating and working through and in, you know, I think it’s the foundations of my own recovery is just building that these, these pieces that help me navigate as things come up because we’re not guaranteed that life is going to be great Once we’re in recovery, we’re still going to have challenges, and that’s just life.
00;44;01;15 – 00;44;27;18
Unknown
And so by having this solid foundation and that’s built on acceptance, self-compassion and accountability. And I think my newest one was on Curiosity, because that’s a huge piece of like how I continue to grow and build and look for the next piece in my own, my own foundation of recovery. And so it’s really about getting some solid footing, what that needs to look like for you so that this isn’t something you’re having to continue to rebuild and rebuild.
00;44;27;18 – 00;44;46;25
Unknown
When things get shaky, you need a solid foundation to continue to grow on. And so that’s really kind of where this stems up. And a lot of this stuff just comes up to me. One day and I’m just from conversations and things and like, you know what? I’m going to try and work on this series or just little ten minute just kind of why it’s important to me how.
00;44;46;25 – 00;45;05;14
Unknown
It can be helpful for you. And I always put on there, I am not a treatment provider, I’m not a clinician. I am just an expert in my own recovery. And this is what’s helped me and I hope that will help you. And so that’s you know, these are just things that have been helpful for me and I hope continue to be helpful for others.
00;45;05;21 – 00;45;30;28
Unknown
Yeah, well, I really appreciate your work and I know so many people do, and I wish you all the best going forward. Is there something that you would have hoped we would have covered that we didn’t, Or any final thoughts that you wanted to add before we close up? No, I think this is a great conversation. It’s so hard to talk about everything.
00;45;30;28 – 00;45;56;08
Unknown
And usually in our episode, which is usually the most that I know that I can tolerate as a person listening to a podcast. So it’s like, you know, it’s one of those things, but I felt like it was a really good conversation. I appreciate the questions that you ask, and I think to anybody listening, you know, the the biggest thing this is the kind of the theme for the month for me and kind of where I’m at lately is if you’re at a space where you’re not sure what’s going on, just get curious.
00;45;56;13 – 00;46;27;13
Unknown
Like get curious about understanding your behaviors around gambling. Start asking yourself questions about it, you know, get curious about other people’s experiences. I think it’s as as humans, right? Our storytelling and our our ability to share our own experiences is one of the most powerful tools that we, we possess. And so just be curious, be curious about about all the different pathways and all the different things that can help you stay on, on a healthy path of recovery.
00;46;27;15 – 00;46;58;27
Unknown
Yeah, such great advice. If you’re a Ted Lasso fan, you would remember you would remember the episode where he hit that one out of the park by talking about being curious, nonjudgmental. So I think we can all Quitman Yep, Yep. Well, yes, the original Walt Whitman. Walt Whitman. It was. It was made popular again by Ted Lasso. All right, Christina, thanks again.
00;46;59;00 – 00;47;29;13
Unknown
I appreciate it was great conversation. I’m real happy to have you on the show. Thank you so much. We love hearing from you. So please take a moment to like, share and comment on our podcast. You can reach out to us directly via email at Ranger Danger at Gateway Foundation dot org. Look for us on Facebook and Twitter at Recovery Gateway on LinkedIn, at Gateway Dash Foundation, or through our Web site at Gateway Foundation.
00;47;29;13 – 00;47;56;22
Unknown
Dot org Wager Danger is supported through funding in whole or in part through a grant from the Illinois Department of Human Services and the Division of Substance Abuse Prevention and Recovery. And remember, recovery is a lifelong process. If you are a family member struggling with a gambling problem, call Gateway at 8449753663 and speak with one of our counselors for a confidential assessment.
