- April 25, 2023
- Gambling
Gambling disorder service providers sit down with Wager Danger to discuss their approach to community outreach and treatment for problem gambling. We explore topics that include:
- The intense shame that sometimes prevents men from seeking assistance with problem gambling, and the resulting observation that women are more likely to complete the program.
- How young people are at increased risk to gambling disorder.
- How telehealth breaks down the barriers to treatment and screening tools that help facilitate the access to treatment options.
Call Gateway Foundation: 855-723-0963
Gambling Problem? Call 1-800-GAMBLER
Transcript:
WAGER DANGER EPISODE 12: COMMUNITY OUTREACH IN CENTRAL ILLINOIS
Host: Shane Cook
You. Hey, it’s Shane Cook with Wager Danger. We’re here today in Bloomington, Illinois at a community outreach event, and we’ve got several providers that are on site providing information about their respective agencies. We have Aaron Nicholson from Gateway, emily Bernard from our house, tom Anya, bib Smith from Task, and Tegan Schol with Heritage Behavioral Health Center. And we sat down with each of them individually and talked a little bit about gambling disorder services that their agency provides. First up is Erin Nicholson from Gateway Foundation, and she is visiting today from Downstate, Illinois in the metro St. Louis area. How are you doing today, Aaron?
Guest: Erin Nicholson
I’m good, how are you?
Host: Shane Cook
Great. So tell us a little bit about Gateway’s gambling program and what your role there is.
Guest: Erin Nicholson
Sure. So my official title is gambling Engagement specialist. My job is to call all of the referrals that we get, whether it’s coming from the call center or an outside source, and talk to them about our program, explain the process a little bit, and then I also do an assessment with them and get into more detail of what they’re struggling with, whether they have any medical or mental health issues that are contributing to gambling or being caused by gambling, any trauma they may have gone through, and just kind of get to the root of their problems and type all that up. And then I provide that to our counselor that does the actual group therapy sessions that we have. Okay, so that’s mainly my job.
Host: Shane Cook
Okay. Yeah. So the group therapy that’s offered at Gateway, can you tell us a little bit more about that?
Guest: Erin Nicholson
Yes. So we have two groups a week. We have Mondays from 530 to 630 and Thursdays from 930 to 1030. And the counselor? Melissa. She’s an LPC. She does have a curriculum that she follows, but she will also do different topics as well depending on the needs of the patients that are in group. So she kind of switches that up to depending on if they are struggling with something in particular or not.
Host: Shane Cook
Okay. And typically the group sessions, in terms of how many group sessions a patient would join or would end up completing, how many is that?
Guest: Erin Nicholson
24 weeks long. So 24 groups. We have some that have gone beyond that, though, because they find it to be very helpful. We have some that are up to 30 groups at this point because the groups are what’s keeping them from gambling.
Host: Shane Cook
Sure.
Guest: Erin Nicholson
They have that out that they can come and talk to other people that have relatable problems. It’s easier than talking to family members that don’t understand what they’re going through.
Host: Shane Cook
Right, okay. That’s interesting that some of the patients continue to seek out the group once that 24 sessions have been completed. Are there other aftercare services that people that have gone through the program can seek out?
Guest: Erin Nicholson
Yes. So I usually will direct them to either a website in their area or have them call their insurance company or even just give them resources for local gambling, anonymous meetings or individual counseling resources, different things of that. Like that.
Host: Shane Cook
Right. Okay, perfect. So you’ve been with Gateway now for a couple of years.
Guest: Erin Nicholson
It’ll be two years in August.
Host: Shane Cook
Okay. Two years in August. And you’ve been involved with the gambling program since day one, is that correct?
Guest: Erin Nicholson
Yes.
Host: Shane Cook
All right. What have you learned?
Guest: Erin Nicholson
A lot. So I kind of went into it with the assumption that it was casinos that most people were going to, but it’s actually not. It’s more online sports betting and video gaming machines because they’re everywhere. You can go to the laundry mat to do a load of laundry and sit there and gamble until your laundry is done.
Host: Shane Cook
Yeah. It’s amazing. We talk about a lot in most of our other episodes. It’s one of the main topics, is how accessible gaming is within the state. So I think anytime you push the accessibility margin down to an individual and now we’ve got it traveling around with us in our back pocket or in our carry all. However we carry that thing, it’s right there and it’s constantly beckoning to us to pick it up. Gambling aside, it’s just a device that I think a lot of people in general lean on more so than we have in the past. Right.
Guest: Erin Nicholson
Yes. And there’s several patients that are now it’s affecting their job because they’ve got that phone with them twenty four, seven. And so they can just sit at their desk and pick it up and make a bet on a football game or something else or play the slots online. And so it’s becoming an all day, everyday thing.
Host: Shane Cook
Right.
Guest: Erin Nicholson
And the money just adds up and then they’re not realizing how much money they’re actually spending on a daily basis.
Host: Shane Cook
Yeah. It’s crazy. Some heartbreaking stories, too.
Guest: Erin Nicholson
It is.
Host: Shane Cook
So if I were to ask you what’s the single most impactful thing that you’ve learned doing this type of work? What do you think that would be?
Guest: Erin Nicholson
I guess I think it’s a conversation I actually had with the patient. He was a male patient, and he was talking about the stigma behind addiction with males and mental health. And he let his addiction go for so long because he was so afraid and ashamed to come forward with it because he was the main caretaker of his wife and his kids. And he just didn’t want to tell his wife that and let his wife down because he felt like he just it’s just not what a male does. A male is supposed to be the strong role model and not have any problems, not have any complaints. And that was like the biggest that was kind of an eye opener for me because I never thought of it that way.
And we have had more females than males, but the male population in our male patients are increasing, but that seems to be the thing. They’re just ashamed to come forward with it. They’re afraid because there’s such a stigma behind it.
Host: Shane Cook
Right. Yeah. Are there any comparisons that we can make between treatment for men versus treatment for women? Are there any even anecdotal evidence that you may have uncovered as we’ve delivered disorder gambling services?
Guest: Erin Nicholson
Sure. So with my experience with the treatment program that we have more women that complete the program successfully than we do men. A lot of times the men will drop off halfway through, and they just quit coming. They quit answering my phone calls, and they don’t want to be engaged at all. And then a few months later, they’ll come back and want to get back in the program again. It’s hard. I can’t give you reason why there’s more women completing than men. They all have different driving factors. And I think with women, a lot of it is by the time they get to us for treatment, they’re at a point where they’ve gambled their retirement away. Most of them are not married. Maybe they’re divorced because of their gambling or their significant other has passed away.
And so they’re the only income source. And so it’s a very big deal for them to stop gambling because if not, they’re going to lose everything.
Host: Shane Cook
Everything.
Guest: Erin Nicholson
Yeah.
Host: Shane Cook
That’s both men and women. Or are you saying that’s predominantly the women?
Guest: Erin Nicholson
That are predominantly the women.
Host: Shane Cook
Okay.
Guest: Erin Nicholson
Yeah.
Host: Shane Cook
All right. That’s interesting. Now, in conversations with other gambling service providers, have you ever compared notes on this, or is this just something internally that you’ve noticed as somewhat of a trend at Gateway?
Guest: Erin Nicholson
Internally, I haven’t discussed it or compared numbers with other providers.
Host: Shane Cook
Okay. Yeah, I think that’s very interesting because I think in general, we tend to think that men are bigger gamblers than women. I’m learning every day that’s not necessarily true.
Guest: Erin Nicholson
Yes, that’s right.
Host: Shane Cook
It may be more related to the type of gambling that we see, and that would be an interesting one. Those that are seeking treatment men, male, female is there a difference in the type of gambling that brings them to Gateways door?
Guest: Erin Nicholson
What I’ve noticed is more women are video gaming machines or lottery or casino. Men are more online gambling or sports gambling. They typically don’t report any other types of gambling to me.
Host: Shane Cook
Well, that seems consistent with some of the research data that’s out there.
Guest: Erin Nicholson
Okay.
Host: Shane Cook
I was just curious.
Guest: Erin Nicholson
Yes.
Host: Shane Cook
I don’t know if you had a chance to listen to Dr. Celeste Napier, but one of the things that she talks about is the neurobiology and neuroscience behind gambling. And one of the key motivators for her in pursuing that line of study and publishing scientifically on it is to diminish or eliminate the stigma that’s often associated with gambling. And I think we’ve come a long way when it comes to substance use disorders and destigmatization of substance use disorders. It seems like a natural progression that we also need to take the same approach for gambling.
Guest: Erin Nicholson
Yes, exactly.
Host: Shane Cook
And I think the more we get out and talk about it, the more effect we can have on destigmatizing.
Guest: Erin Nicholson
Yes. And I mean, even just in the awareness for gambling addiction alone or problem gambling, not everybody knows about it. They don’t think about it. They don’t understand how big of a problem it really is. So the education courses that I do as well with patients, that’s an eye opener for them because they don’t realize the mental health that goes along with the problem gambling. They don’t realize the high suicide rates with problem gambling, or even if you have a substance use addiction, how when you quit that, you sometimes move over to gambling as another addiction because it’s not an illegal thing. It’s not harming you physically, in a sense. And so they kind of feel like that’s a better addiction per se than what they were, the substance they were using before, and they don’t understand any of that.
And so doing the education courses that I do, that’s helping out a lot as well.
Host: Shane Cook
Right. That’s a good point. We didn’t cover that. But that’s one of the things that you do on a weekly basis as well, is go to another facility that’s nearby, that’s a residential facility, and provide an educational 1 hour educational overview behind gambling. Right.
Guest: Erin Nicholson
Correct. Yes.
Host: Shane Cook
Well, Aaron, I appreciate everything that you do for Gateway. We couldn’t do it without you.
Guest: Erin Nicholson
Thank you.
Host: Shane Cook
It was good seeing you today at this gathering here in Bloomingdale. Bloomington. Sorry. Bloomingdale’s suburb of Chicago. So. Yeah, we’re in Bloomington. Bloomington. All right. Well, thanks again, Aaron. It’s a pleasure talking to you.
Guest: Erin Nicholson
Yeah, thanks.
Host: Shane Cook
My next guest is Tanya Bibbs Smith with treatment alternatives for Safe Communities, more commonly known as Task. Tanya.
Guest: Tanya Bibbs Smith
Well, hello, everybody. My name is Tanya B of Smith.
Host: Shane Cook
Well, I was going to continue Tanya.
Guest: Tanya Bibbs Smith
Bib Smith mess with what you say.
Host: Shane Cook
I’m curious. Can you tell us a little bit about Task, its mission, what it does, how long you’ve been with them? I understand you’re the regional outreach coordinator. Maybe a little bit about what that means as well.
Guest: Tanya Bibbs Smith
Okay, let’s start out by talking about, a little bit what Task does. Task offers a range of services both in person and via telehealth, of course, so that we can address any patients needs. We can reinforce those needs by helping them through court situations. If they’re dealing with DCFS or they’re dealing with a substance abuse disorder situation as far as court is concerned, we also help with those situations as well. But Task considers all areas of our patients lives and family and community engagement, individual therapy sessions, school and work, wellness management and continuing care and integrated within our services. So we do quite a bit.
Host: Shane Cook
You have a recovery home as well, is that correct?
Guest: Tanya Bibbs Smith
We do. I believe it is in. I’m new at Task, so please forgive me, but I do believe that it’s in Bovo, Illinois, if I’m not mistaken.
Host: Shane Cook
All right, so tell us a little bit about what your role is at task as regional outreach coordinator. What does that entail?
Guest: Tanya Bibbs Smith
It entails a lot of stuff. I pretty much travel around the state of Illinois, and when I say the state of Illinois, I mean anywhere in the state of Illinois. Upstate, downstate, middle of state, across the state. So I do Billville Springfield, Chicago, of course, is our biggest area and where our main location is. I also facilitate at different entities such as VA halls, assisted living, unassisted living, anywhere where individuals will take the community to gamble. Or maybe they’ll have bingo sessions, maybe they’ll have keynote space, be with or something like that. If they’re having some type of gambling event in the community or at the casino, then I will normally go out and facilitate at those different groups or the different meetings that they may have. If they’re having a gambling anonymous meeting, sometimes I facilitate at those.
Just go by and talk about a few things that may be new with treatment. As far as problem gambling, okay.
Host: Shane Cook
Most of the work you’re doing then is centered around problem gambling awareness, problem.
Guest: Tanya Bibbs Smith
Gambling, and substance use disorder.
Host: Shane Cook
And substance use disorder. Okay. And going out and meeting and coordinating with the various civic organizations that you mentioned.
Guest: Tanya Bibbs Smith
Absolutely. Political churches, schools I go to middle schools, high schools, colleges, you name it, I pretty much do it.
Host: Shane Cook
Sure. Okay. Are you finding an openness it’s interesting that you mentioned middle school and high school. Historically, it’s been a challenge I’m trying.
Guest: Tanya Bibbs Smith
To put it in.
Host: Shane Cook
It’s been a challenge to really break into middle schools and high schools to talk about substance use or gambling in the past. Do you see that it’s opening up? People are definitely to have that conversation.
Guest: Tanya Bibbs Smith
Absolutely. I definitely see this is becoming more of an open area of discussion, especially in middle schools and high schools. We have so much technology that these young people are able to get a hold of iPhones, Androids laptops, iPads, tablets and these things have gambling initiated things on them. Such as you could play pinball for free, but if you pay one dollars 99, you can buy 5000 more coins or 5 million more coins and you can bet we’ll give you $5 to bet in the tournament or something of that nature. So a lot of these young people aren’t really paying attention to or recognizing that it can become a problem, the gambling, and they aren’t recognizing that they are gambling. That’s what I start finding out when I start facilitating in the middle schools. And so a young man goes, oh, Ms.
Smith, I’m not gambling. I just wanted to go to the next level in a tournament. And I had to explain to him that they’re still gambling. He’s still gambling. And so I think that it amazes a lot of people, especially when I start talking about the different games that are considered to be gambling games. People tend to they start to feel a little weird about it. And so I always have to still explain, hey, we aren’t trying to discourage you from gambling. We just want you to know that when it becomes a problem, we are here for you and there is assistance, there’s help for you. So a lot of people don’t think they bingo as gambling, but it is sure, yeah.
Host: Shane Cook
Anytime you risk something of value or perceived value with the hopes of gaining more and with a high probability that you’re going to lose. Right. Even in the video games that are out there, it could be a digital coin, but within the context of that game, that’s something that’s valuable. Right?
Guest: Tanya Bibbs Smith
Absolutely.
Host: Shane Cook
It’s a tough one for people to get their minds around, I think, especially younger folks. But I think it’s necessary and needed. I’m so glad to hear that you are having success at getting in front of middle school age and high school age students, because the gaming progression ultimately will naturally evolve to online gaming or online gambling, whether that be in the sports book setting or some other. So it’s good to hear.
Guest: Tanya Bibbs Smith
Yeah. Another thing that I wanted touch on just briefly is I was actually listening to the radio, and I have that old serious radio, serious or Internet radio, but they were talking about howard University students, over 80% of the campus has a gambling problem.
Host: Shane Cook
Oh, my gosh.
Guest: Tanya Bibbs Smith
They have heard that. Yes. They started to use their college tuition, their disbursement checks and their reimbursement checks to try to double and triple them, and they would take that. Some students were winning, so they were able to pay their college tuition and still have money left over. But the majority of and the percentage that they gave on the radio was 45%. So the majority of those students were unable to successfully win. But those 45% students are now in deep debt, not just college debt, but gambling debt. So now what do they do? What do they do?
So people like myself and people like counselors, case managers, different things of that nature, they’re going out because they’re trying to help these students and let the courts know because some of them are going to court for this because they’re in debt, they owe, and so you got to pay. So with that being said, they are getting counselors and case managers and things of that nature. We’re going to the course and we’re saying, hey, these students need help. They don’t need jail. They need to be put on payment plans to pay these individuals back. So I thought that was so very interesting, though, because here you have people who are going out and putting themselves in debt to go to college, but now you’re putting yourself further into debt because now you’re gambling, trying to double or triple that money.
It’s that mindset of the gambler, I would say.
Host: Shane Cook
Yeah, absolutely. I’m still shocked to hear that 80%, they narrowed it down to 80% of the student body has been participating in that. Wow.
Guest: Tanya Bibbs Smith
They actually gave three different colleges. One was Howard, one was Spellman, and the other one I don’t want to loud on them. So I don’t remember.
Host: Shane Cook
Was that primarily HBCUs that the study.
Guest: Tanya Bibbs Smith
Was let me just say, the particular show that I was listening to was this show was directed towards HBCUs.
Host: Shane Cook
Okay.
Guest: Tanya Bibbs Smith
So I can’t say if it’s Princeton or Harvard or any of the other sister colleges or what have you, but they were talking about HBCUs. And I know that as a black woman in my community, they don’t believe gambling. We just don’t believe gambling is a disease or that it is a disorder. But now that I am out in the community, now that I’ve learned that I’m able to teach some of my community individuals and some of my family members, hey, this is a problem, this is a disorder, it’s a disease. So let’s talk about it. Let’s get into it, and let’s start talking about it with our friends and have them to start talking about it with their friends and family.
And let’s start having our friends as well as ourselves to watch our children who are playing on PlayStations and iPhones androids, and they’re playing. And the one young person said to me, well, Ms. Smith, it says in app purchase only. But what happens when you run and go and get mom and Dad’s credit card for that in app purchase only?
Host: Shane Cook
Right.
Guest: Tanya Bibbs Smith
And it could be a continuous thing. You might do it once, but what about the kid that does it 34567 times? I remember a story just recent, and I want to say it was back in January of this year. Eleven year old young man got his dad’s credit card. Do you remember the story? No. He won $90,000.
Host: Shane Cook
No.
Guest: Tanya Bibbs Smith
Had it have not been for he put the account in his dad’s name, used his dad’s credit card, he would not have gotten that $90,000. Wow. His dad was able to get the $90,000, but this young man, eleven years old, used his dad’s credit card to play an in app purchase only, and he won.
Host: Shane Cook
Wow. No, I hadn’t heard that one. I’ve heard similar stories. Right. And the most recent one that I was thinking of, this smaller kid had used the DoorDash app on his dad’s phone and ordered, like, $1,000 worth of food from different restaurants.
Guest: Tanya Bibbs Smith
Oh, my God.
Host: Shane Cook
Yeah. It all comes back to accessibility. Right. And it’s something that I talk to a lot of people about, especially when it comes to anything that you can put on your phone an app, whether it be sports book gambling, that sort of stuff. Having that be so available and accessible can lead to some really undesirable outcomings, very wexley, especially young kids picking up on it and playing with it. Not about me, but I’ve had a similar experience with my youngest playing video games and having access to a card on that account. As soon as it starts clicking, I’m like, whoa, wait a minute, what’s going on?
Guest: Tanya Bibbs Smith
Just in general, as parents or even as adults, we just need to be a little more mindful. I think sometimes we get a little busy and a little caught up in our world of work and trying to make a household run and different things like that, and we just say, here, because I’ve done it to my children. Here, take this car. Go do that. Here, take this cash. Go do that. And we are recognizing that they see it as, okay, well, mom is buying this, so I can buy this too, and I’ll just use her card. She know I don’t have any money, so let me do it this way. But that’s just not the case, right? Not our pockets wise, but in that same breath, this is some of the things that draws our children into the gambling world.
Because we get so caught up in our things, we just say, here, give them the card. And then they go and they do these in app purchases. Or they’re betting. They already know about off track betting and they’re online doing it. Or they’re playing the lottery online, or they’re doing I remember a couple of years back when this is just recent as well, this young man was on Robin Hood and he thought that he had lost all his money, so he committed suicide. Well, his brother found out the next day that he actually had not lost all his money, he actually had gained $3.8 million.
Host: Shane Cook
Oh, my gosh.
Guest: Tanya Bibbs Smith
These are all stories you can actually look up. They’re online, of course. Everything is online. But I just try to follow some of these stories because when I facilitate or talk about it, I just want to let people know that Robin Hood gambling is gambling. Different things that we think aren’t gambling, they are playing a stock market gambling. Right.
Host: Shane Cook
Especially playing the futures market. Like that whole set up was, right? Yeah.
Guest: Tanya Bibbs Smith
But if you think about it, a lot of these gaming things and a lot of games that we play, they have all these extra drawings, too. Because you and I, we can sit here and say, oh, yeah, we don’t have to gamble, or we can take $5 and just gamble with that and go about our way. Whereas some people, they’ll take $5 and then they got an extra $500 stuck down in their pocket, so they’re going to go and they’ll play the $5. Well, it came up two bills and a circle. So let me put this $100 in here. Maybe it’ll come up to three bills next time. So I call it the sighted sound effect. You look at it, and it’s close, so you want to get closer, and you keep hitting that button, or you keep pulling that lash down.
So you just keep gaming, you keep betting. And then we pass these things onto our youth. They see that they may not be able to see us in the casinos, but they’ll see us on our phones. We’re playing those casino games. They’ll see it on TV, oh, mom, dad, do you pull the lever or do you hit the button? And you only have to say one or the other or both? It’s something that sticks in their mind. It’s a mindset. So I always tell people, be mindful of your gambling. Set goals for yourself sometimes if that’s what you need to do, but also be mindful of the people around you who are gambling, because even if you don’t have an issue, they may have an issue, and we should be able to pick up on that before it gets too bad if we can.
Host: Shane Cook
Absolutely. Great advice, Tanya. I appreciate you jumping on today and having spending a few minutes here with us on Wager Danger to talk about what you do at Task and what you’re passionate about. I mean, it certainly comes through that you have a great deal of passion for this, for helping others, and especially around gambling disorder. I fully believe that we are just now seeing the beginning of what could potentially be a wave of individuals that are going to be seeking out gambling disorder services here, especially since online sports betting is so new, but rapidly growing in terms of the monthly handles that are being wagered on sports betting in the state of Illinois. So I think it’s just a matter of time before those of us who are providing these services are seeing a massive influx of patients seeking our services.
So it’s been a pleasure to get to know you, and I look forward to working together.
Guest: Tanya Bibbs Smith
Well, thank you so much. It was a pleasure being here, and thank you for letting me talk about something that is so near and dear to my heart and hope to do this again.
Host: Shane Cook
All right? Yeah, definitely. My next guest is Emily Bernard. She is an addictions counselor at our house. Emily, welcome to the show.
Guest: Emily Bernard
Hi. Thank you. Happy to be here.
Host: Shane Cook
It was great to meet you today. And it would be wonderful if you can share a little bit about what our house is about. And that’s our H-O-U-R house.
Guest: Emily Bernard
Yes. Our house. Yes. So our slogan is kind of like, change happens sometimes 1 hour at a time. So were originally Seed Council, which was Central East Alcoholism and Drug Council. They rebranded recently to our House just to encompass all of our different programs. So we are mainly for substance use, treatment and prevention, but I think it was about three years ago, we applied for a grant for gambling. Right. Really what were trying to do is were seeing a lot of patients coming in for substance use treatment, but they also were gambling a lot or they would start gambling as kind of a replacement for their substance use. So they were trying to help out some of those patients that were coming in with multiple issues. But it’s been great so far.
I’m doing the gambling group on Fridays now, and it’s really good to hear these people’s stories and where they started and how far they’ve come now is just amazing.
Host: Shane Cook
Right. So in terms of the community that you serve, is it limited to a particular community or you have a cast, a wide net?
Guest: Emily Bernard
Oh, we have a very wide net if you ask me. So we do get a lot of patients from our area, which is the Coles County area in Illinois south of Champagne. We do get a lot of people also from, like, Effingham County, but we recently started having our Rosk program, which is Recovery Oriented Systems of Care, and they’re reaching out to other local counties. So we have Shelby County, Effingham County, clark and Cumberland County, and then Moultrie and Edgar County.
Host: Shane Cook
Okay.
Guest: Emily Bernard
I think I covered all of them but might have missed one. But that’s been really great in casting an even wider net is we have people coming from all these outside counties now, and we still do telehealth services, which was a great thing from COVID that’s kind of carried over, is that we can still meet with these patients. They usually just come in for the first appointment to sign paperwork, and then they’ll come in for the third appointment, which is treatment planning. And then from there on, they can basically do telehealth services.
Host: Shane Cook
Okay. Yeah. At least in our case at Gateway, our gambling groups are conducted virtually. So that is a bit of telehealth in and of itself, but something that was introduced during the COVID period. And I think there are many people who appreciate the option of joining virtually as opposed to going to a particular location for those services.
Guest: Emily Bernard
Yes. They can be really helpful too, especially if you have patients coming in for DUI treatment hours. And they currently don’t have a license, so unless they can have someone bring them or give them a ride, they don’t AI transcription, get the help they need.
Host: Shane Cook
Right.
Guest: Emily Bernard
So the telehealth really helps with that.
Host: Shane Cook
Yeah. And a great example breaking down the barriers to treatment.
Guest: Emily Bernard
Right, right.
Host: Shane Cook
You have to meet people where they are anyway. You can do that. Well, tell me a little bit about what led you to this path to serve as an addictions counselor.
Guest: Emily Bernard
Yes. So honestly, I didn’t see myself going down this route probably even a year ago. I started in July working at our house. July 2022. I had just. Graduated with my Master’s, and they were posting ads all over that they needed help. And so I went and I interviewed and they told me all about the requirements and stuff. So I’m currently working towards my CADC, so certified alcohol and drug counselor. I’ve completed my 30 hours of gambling training. So that was really exciting. But my mom, she was an alcoholic and gambler, and she passed away in 2017. And so that was really hard for me. And going straight to college right after that. Sure.
So seeing how I wasn’t really able to help her kind of motivated me and wanting to help other people that were kind of struggling with some of those same things. And I get a lot of that. Like helping people with alcohol, like Cessation or even marijuana cessation or meth addiction, it’s just across the board, people really don’t understand how big the problem really is out there.
Host: Shane Cook
Right. Yeah. And naturally, and we’ve already talked about it, you mentioned it earlier, how that can lead to problem gambling or disordered gambling in an individual as well. Yeah, it’s just kind of a natural fit to be in this space as well.
Guest: Emily Bernard
Yeah. In my trainings, I’ve learned a lot about the brain and how it changes in addiction. The drug itself can cause changes in the brain, but then when you think of things like gambling and sex, it’s the process addiction. So you’re actually just the highs and lows in your brain is becoming addictive. So that’s how you see kind of those substance use disorders and the gambling going hand in hand, the excitement that you get right.
Host: Shane Cook
Real quick. I know you’ve been doing this fairly short time, just coming up on a year, and is there anything that has really stuck out or anything that you would say? I never anticipated this, especially when it comes to working with people that are facing a disordered gambling or gambling addiction.
Guest: Emily Bernard
Yeah, I guess. Probably looking at the legal consequences that some of my patients are facing. Take a note of theft and burglary. I never would have thought about that. That they would go and steal these things in order to have something to sell to get the money to gamble. So now they’re dealing with not only their gambling disorder, but all of these legal consequences so that they would be able to gamble.
Host: Shane Cook
Sure.
Guest: Emily Bernard
So I never thought about that side of it.
Host: Shane Cook
It’s pretty crazy. There’s just heartbreaking stories all around with that. It was fantastic getting to meet you today and learn a little bit more about you. I look forward to our paths crossing again.
Guest: Emily Bernard
Yes, me too.
Host: Shane Cook
All right, well, thank you, Emily.
Guest: Emily Bernard
Yes, thanks for having me.
Host: Shane Cook
All right, take care.
Guest: Emily Bernard
You too. Bye.
Host: Shane Cook
Bye.
Host: Shane Cook
My last guest is Tegan Schol with Heritage Behavioral Health Center. Tegan, welcome to the show.
Guest: Tegan Schol
Hi, thanks for having me.
Host: Shane Cook
Absolutely. It was a pleasure meeting you today. Can you tell us a little bit about heritage and the agency and what it is you do there.
Guest: Tegan Schol
Yeah, so we are a behavioral healthcare center, so we do everything from mental health services to substance use services, pretty much anything that an individual may need. We have some program that we offer for it. My role there is I work with our mental health juvenile justice program and our gambling programs.
Host: Shane Cook
Okay. That is an interesting pairing. Do you see a lot of similarities or crossover with those two areas?
Guest: Tegan Schol
A lot in terms of problem thinking in terms of that. So there’s some crossover there, but really it was put together because both areas were my interests, so they kind of had two openings and wanted me to take both of them, so kind of put it together.
Host: Shane Cook
Okay, and how long have you been with heritage?
Guest: Tegan Schol
Almost two years.
Host: Shane Cook
Two years. I think I know where heritage is located, but it’s down in the danville area.
Guest: Tegan Schol
No, decatur.
Host: Shane Cook
Decatur. Okay. For some reason I was stuck on danville, but decatur is a little more central. It’s actually halfway between here and springfield. Yes, it is, so to speak. You’ve been in that area for a.
Guest: Tegan Schol
While, so lived there about seven years prior to working at heritage. Worked in springfield at family guidance center. So another substance use treatment center. So kind of been working in central illinois for a while now.
Host: Shane Cook
Sure. Okay. In terms of the demographics in central illinois, have you noticed an increase or do you come across maybe let me ask this a different way. Being in central illinois, have you noticed a rise in gambling services being sought or people are more aware of it, or do you feel like it’s still relatively on the front end of what could potentially be a large wave of providing services for people in the state of illinois?
Guest: Tegan Schol
So I feel like a lot of people that we are coming across in our screening events and things like that are kind of becoming more aware of what gambling all entails because there’s still the large conception that gambling is just casinos, slot machines, things like that. So it doesn’t necessarily capture the online gambling that’s going on or other forms of gambling that’s even, like, affecting our adolescence, things like that. So I definitely love the state’s new screening tool because it very much lays out exactly what gambling is, which really helps with people understanding when we’re screening, what the word gambling is, which really is getting us more individuals that are at risk for a problem gambling issue.
Host: Shane Cook
Yeah. So interesting you bring up the new screening tool. That’s not something that we’ve actually talked about on this show here, but you’ve provided a great little segue to do. So do you mind just walking the listener through that screen, what it entails, what its intent really is?
Guest: Tegan Schol
So the state moved from its original, I think it was three questions screening to what we call an expert model screen. Don’t ask me what Espert stands for because I do not know what the acronym stands for. But the idea behind a screen is it’s supposed to be very easy to follow and use and it really is so that they can push it out to all the different healthcare providers and things like that. So pretty much anyone can pick up the screen and be able to execute. Giving a screen. It’s very user friendly, it gets to the bottom of what’s kind of going on and it even includes how you kind of judge the risk, whether it’s low, medium or high risk for a problem gambling issue.
Host: Shane Cook
Right? Yeah, thanks for running through that, because I think it’s important that people understand and this is actually available on the States are You Really Winning website where you can go out and you can actually self screen, which will lead you through a series of questions and then provide if, at the end of that screening, you desire to have a conversation with somebody, there is contact information and a way for you, an individual, to then reach out and talk to somebody a little bit further or to be directed to a local gambling disorder service provider in your local community. So thanks for doing that. It dawned on me that we had never really talked about that screening tool and gave us a great opportunity to do so.
I have been asking each of the other guests that have been on today’s show is there one thing that you would point to as being very impactful for you personally in providing gambling disorder services?
Guest: Tegan Schol
Just how kind of pervasive it is. Oftentimes we don’t really realize just how big of an effect it has on individuals. But I also provide gambling counseling, so I’m not just doing the outreach portion. And so with a lot of my patients, one, it’s varied, it affects anyone and everyone. It does not know any sort of demographical bounds by any means. I have patients that are in their sixty s, I have patients that are in their twenty s, I have African American patients of all gender races, everything like that. So it definitely does not prioritize who it is that is affected by it. But it definitely affects everyone very similarly where it’s just devastating and oftentimes they are not getting the help they need before it becomes as devastating as it is.
Because there’s such a misnomer around it that it’s not an addiction, that it shouldn’t be an addiction because it’s legal, it’s not a substance you’re putting in your body, things like that. So that’s the biggest kind of thing that I wish we could kind of get through that. Just because you’re not putting something in your body doesn’t mean it’s not affecting you the same as any other substance and things like that. I definitely work with a lot of people that were in recovery from either drugs or alcohol and now have a gambling use disorder and they’re like, well, this is harder to kick than alcohol was, or whatever the substance is.
So it’s definitely important to kind of do that outrage and let people know that there is help available in kind of what to look for in terms of if they do have an issue with problem gambling.
Host: Shane Cook
Yeah, well, certainly appreciate your work in this field and I trust that on some level you find it personally rewarding.
Guest: Tegan Schol
Yes, I do.
Host: Shane Cook
And that keeps you motivating, keeps you going. And again, I appreciate you agreeing to hop on the show today.
Guest: Tegan Schol
Of course. Thanks for having me.
Host: Shane Cook
Yeah. Tell us a little bit more about yourself and about heritage and the great work you’re doing in Decatur. It was a great afternoon at Heartland Community College, having the opportunity to sit down and speak with each of these women and learn a little bit more about each of their agencies. Thanks for listening. We love hearing from you. So please take a moment to like, share and comment on our podcast. You can reach out to us directly via email at wagerdanger@gatewayfoundation.org. Look for us on Facebook and Twitter at Recovergateway, on LinkedIn at gatewayfoundation or through our website@gatewayfoundation.org. Wager Danger is supported through funding in whole or in part through a grant from the Illinois Department of Human Services and the Division of Substance Use Prevention and Recovery. And remember, recovery is a lifelong process.
If you or a family member is struggling with a gambling problem, call Gate Way at 844-975-3663 and speak with one of our counselors for a confidential assessment.
Additional Resources:
- Podcast: Gaming to Gambling
- Article: How to Stop Gambling: 10 Tips
