- June 07, 2024
- Gambling
After years of working the Gamblers Anonymous (GA) program, it was “tough love” from his family and some frank advice from a GA veteran (and mentor) that compelled Jimmy to fully commit to his recovery. In this episode Jimmy shares his personal story of gambling disorder and his extraordinary journey towards recovery.
Call Gateway Foundation: 855-723-0963
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Transcript:
Speaker 1 (Jimmy)
Going to jail doesn’t help him stop gambling. Nothing will. And they were 100% wrong because the only thing that really could save me and stop me from gambling was Gamblers Anonymous.
00;00;18;17 – 00;00;49;15
Speaker 2 (Shane Cook)
Welcome to another episode of Wager Danger. I’m your host, Shane Cook. Gambling Disorder Program director at Gateway Foundation. From a young age, Jimmy was an avid gambler. Whether it was playing cards for money or pitching quarters, he quickly found himself in debt, first, borrowing money from a bookie in order to gamble, then from friends and family to cover his gambling losses.
00;00;49;18 – 00;01;16;26
Speaker 2
After graduating high school, his gambling habits worsened by the age of 23. Jimmy realized he had a gambling problem and started attending Gamblers Anonymous meetings. Even though Jay helped him understand the extent of his problem. He viewed it more as a control mechanism to keep his gambling habits in check. However, his gambling continued to escalate over the next decade and his borrowing spiraled out of control.
00;01;16;29 – 00;01;42;11
Speaker 2
And, as he explains, his life became a revolving door of misery. The turning point was his family’s attendance at a gay and gaming town meeting where they confronted some harsh realities. Jimmy recalls how a three month sentence to a county jail led his family to take a firm stand against his gambling. This was the moment he started taking his recovery seriously.
00;01;42;14 – 00;02;06;00
Speaker 2
He credits a Gamblers Anonymous veteran for providing him with wisdom and guidance, which ultimately set him on the path to recovery. Join us. Since Jimmy shares his personal story of recovery and tells us why connections with people have replaced his desire to gamble. We’re grateful for his story and fortunate to have him share his journey with us. Welcome to the show, Jimmy.
00;02;06;03 – 00;02;07;18
Speaker 1
Thanks, Shane. Thanks for having me.
00;02;07;20 – 00;02;30;09
Speaker 2
Yeah, Jimmy, it’s great to have you with us. We had an opportunity to meet up in late March during problem gambling awareness Month. We were both together at Health Care Alternative systems, also known as Hearts. They were having a resource fair in New York. On the agenda to talk about your story and your story of gambling disorder recovery.
00;02;30;12 – 00;02;45;22
Speaker 2
So we wanted to have you on the show and give you an opportunity to talk about that. So just wanted to jump in to that, if you don’t mind, and talk about, you know, what were some of your first memories of getting involved with gambling?
00;02;45;25 – 00;03;05;14
Speaker 1
Yeah, I if I had to really dig deep and go back, it would it would probably be back with my grandparents playing cards at their home for pennies, nickels, dimes, quarters. Probably at the earliest age of like five, six, seven years old.
00;03;05;16 – 00;03;29;02
Speaker 2
Yeah. And I hear that. I hear that quite a bit. I mean, it starts off pretty innocent, right? And innocently enough. And then from there, typically, you know, for some individuals, it can grow into something more so. Ken, if you wouldn’t mind, I’m just going to have you kind of walk us through your your story. And maybe I’ll interject with a few questions here and there.
00;03;29;05 – 00;03;30;16
Speaker 2
How’s that?
00;03;30;18 – 00;04;02;16
Speaker 1
Sounds good. So as far as my gambling story, I would it would probably yeah, I would go back into with my grandparents and then following that up with and probably a lot of the listeners were a part of this pitching Hoarders then became a thing with the friends I grew up with. And then while I was pitching Hoarders, I would say right around the gut.
00;04;02;19 – 00;04;10;10
Speaker 2
Can I ask you just kind of describe for people what people that aren’t familiar with pitching quarters, what that what that is?
00;04;10;12 – 00;04;33;07
Speaker 1
Sure. So, yeah, so basically, you line up on one side of the sidewalk or there’s the the one line, and then you take each two people each have a quarter in hand and you pitch the quarter to the next nearest line. And whoever gets closest to the line basically wins.
00;04;33;09 – 00;04;34;03
Speaker 2
Okay.
00;04;34;05 – 00;05;11;18
Speaker 1
So from fishing hoarders, it became then I got into sports with parlay cards and then when I when I got to high school, I was introduced to a sports bookie, illegal bookie, because gambling then was was illegal. So I had hope that opened my my gambling world to just a whole other aspect of, you know, crossing the limits and, you know, pretty much with with a with a bookie, you can bet money you don’t have.
00;05;11;20 – 00;05;37;04
Speaker 1
And it’s based off of kind of like credit, you know. So if I, you know, have a friend and those a bookie, he can kind of verify. Yeah. He can kind of vouch for me and say, yeah, this, you know, Jimmy’s good for it, so they’ll give me a limit. I would place a bet. And it’s basically you’re betting with, you know, invisible money and, you know, so it’s a lot it’s a lot different than the casinos.
00;05;37;04 – 00;05;48;12
Speaker 1
Casinos. You kind of have to have money upfront. But I didn’t like that. I’m like, because, you know, a lot of times I didn’t have that money. So I would. But a lot of times I bet money I didn’t have.
00;05;48;14 – 00;05;54;20
Speaker 2
And you say this was you were in high school around this time, so 16, 17 years old.
00;05;54;22 – 00;05;56;18
Speaker 1
I’d say 14. 15.
00;05;56;21 – 00;05;58;19
Speaker 2
Okay. Early high school.
00;05;58;21 – 00;06;00;03
Speaker 1
Yes. Freshman year.
00;06;00;09 – 00;06;01;20
Speaker 2
Okay.
00;06;01;23 – 00;06;25;26
Speaker 1
And then pretty much that was the first time I I was in a hole where I, you know, I couldn’t couldn’t pay back the money. And I remember vividly being in my front room area, my couch and my mom was in the kitchen and I had nowhere else to go but to really just go to her and kind of let her know what was going on.
00;06;25;26 – 00;06;57;05
Speaker 1
And so I just went in the kitchen, broke down in tears, and yeah, cried my eyes out and told her what happened. And she kind of opened up to me a little bit and told me that her mother was a really bad gambler back in the seventies and eighties, and I had to take all my loans. So she wrote me a check and told me that she was going to not tell my father and I’d never do it again.
00;06;57;08 – 00;07;06;26
Speaker 1
And I took that check, paid off the bookie, and that was pretty much it for, you know, a little while. And then, of course.
00;07;06;29 – 00;07;22;23
Speaker 2
So Jimmy Yeah. Just a couple of questions about. So was this right out of the gate or did you have did you have a little bit of success early on gambling and then the debt kind of built up over time?
00;07;22;25 – 00;07;46;25
Speaker 1
Yeah, great question. Yeah, that’s a great question. I it definitely started off with, you know, obviously it starts off with, you know, small, small bets and then the basket, you know, bigger and bigger. The losses get bigger and bigger. So I probably had probably at a good, good maybe 3 to 6 months worth of, you know, being able to do it on my own, which I didn’t in and then not getting in trouble.
00;07;46;27 – 00;07;56;12
Speaker 1
And then eventually, you know, it got to a point of, you know, I couldn’t I couldn’t I couldn’t find a way to pay the bookie off. Okay.
00;07;56;15 – 00;08;22;23
Speaker 2
So I’m just trying to paint the picture here. When you’re utilizing a bookie like that, then you have some losses. Then you place a larger bet to cover the losses and you kind of get extended that way. Or the bookie allows that to ride. Just kind of curious, what kind of limit did you have at 14, 15 years old?
00;08;22;25 – 00;08;25;17
Speaker 1
I think it was around, I think like $500.
00;08;25;20 – 00;08;34;23
Speaker 2
Okay. Which, you know, I mean, at that age, it’s it’s kind of tough to come up with that on your own. Right. Unless you’re unless you’re working a job.
00;08;34;25 – 00;08;54;10
Speaker 1
Yeah, absolutely. And then, you know, also, even though you’re put on a, you know, kind of a limit or, you know, a year, then, you know, you could ask the bookie, Hey, I’m good for it. Can you give me a little bit more? And they usually well, you know, I suppose it must be if you’re like, you know, if it’s going from five one 500 to 1000.
00;08;54;13 – 00;08;56;17
Speaker 1
The bookie. Well, we’ll let it slide.
00;08;56;20 – 00;09;04;04
Speaker 2
Okay, So you talk to your mom about it. Got that first round resolved and then.
00;09;04;06 – 00;09;33;22
Speaker 1
Yeah, so and you know, after that, after my mother paid off the large debt to the bookie, maybe I stopped for a little while. Maybe, you know, for six months, you know, small, cleared. And then, of course, you know, I know. You know, another problem with trying to stop at that time in my life was really hard because, you know, everybody I was I grew up with, I probably have to say about 95% of everybody I was hanging out with was gambling.
00;09;33;25 – 00;09;54;01
Speaker 1
And the people in school were gambling. So it was like, you know, that was the thing to do. And and the parlay cards and then the bookies. And it just seemed like that was what everybody was doing. And then I think I would say sophomore year, me and a friend thought it’d be a really good idea to start booking.
00;09;54;03 – 00;10;11;13
Speaker 1
So we started that and it was short lived because then, yeah, there were, there were some people that were betting would else they would lose and then they wouldn’t pay. And so we kind of stopped that. But you know, kind of try to dabble into that a little bit and you know, thinking that there might be another answer to our problems.
00;10;11;13 – 00;10;33;19
Speaker 1
But it really never threw through all of high school and never really stopped. Found more sneakier ways to borrow money. You know, which is through a girlfriend, through a girlfriend’s mother. You know, you just you just keep on finding ways to try to bail yourselves out and bail myself out. And and and do whatever I have to do.
00;10;33;22 – 00;10;36;25
Speaker 1
So I don’t have to go back to my mother and ask her for money again.
00;10;36;27 – 00;10;44;09
Speaker 2
Right. And and during this time, your mom had no idea that this was going on?
00;10;44;11 – 00;11;05;14
Speaker 1
I think she did. I think she did. I think I was actually kind of open open about it. But then I would like tell her, you know, it’s only you know, it’s only X amount of dollars. I’m fine. I have it under control. And so that was like kind of the, you know, illusion that I was kind of presenting to her that it wasn’t that bad.
00;11;05;16 – 00;11;18;29
Speaker 1
And I would, you know, just pretty much borrow from anybody I could. And then whenever I couldn’t borrow from anybody, then I’d go to my parents or I’d get really desperate and, you know, maybe my girlfriend’s mother to bail me out.
00;11;19;02 – 00;11;23;19
Speaker 2
Okay, so about how long how long did this go on?
00;11;23;22 – 00;11;27;12
Speaker 1
Yeah, this went on pretty much through through high school.
00;11;27;14 – 00;11;48;18
Speaker 2
Okay. So through the remaining years of high school, that was kind of the kind of the process that you went through and a slight departure into the world of bookmaking in there, but just consistently engaging in in some of the gambling activities after high school. What happened then?
00;11;48;21 – 00;12;17;04
Speaker 1
Yeah. So after high school, I got involved with another, another friends, my first rough around of high school and I think that’s what it really it, it really it really went from like bad to like worse it just and it just became then I started dragging her really into it, her mom. And then I was out one night at a bar and I ran into a a former classmate of mine that I graduated high school with.
00;12;17;06 – 00;12;43;24
Speaker 1
And he just so happened to be a manager of a same day loan company that just was like music to my ears. So, you know, to be able to get, you know, X amount of dollars, you know, within hours, I was like, you know, was it was was was huge for me. Then that kind of opened up the floodgates to being able to maybe gamble some more, double down on some bets after some losses.
00;12;43;26 – 00;13;17;12
Speaker 1
And then it just my my disease progressively just got work worse in my early twenties so then say around the age of 23, my my mother started to see that things were getting, you know, worse and worse. So I she suggested she said she had heard that these gambling meetings, you know, might be helpful. She’s heard from other people that there’s other meetings in like AA or N.A. for Alcohol Anonymous or anybody with a drug problem.
00;13;17;12 – 00;13;19;06
Speaker 1
They have that friend, a.
00;13;19;08 – 00;13;19;28
Speaker 2
Narcotics.
00;13;19;28 – 00;13;40;29
Speaker 1
Anonymous narcotics around. Yeah. So so I was like, yeah, I was open. I always knew I had a problem that was that was never, you know, a lot of a lot of addicts, a lot of gambling addicts. You know, the first step is admitting that you have a problem. And a lot of people struggle with that. But from early age, I’ve always, always knew that I had a problem.
00;13;40;29 – 00;14;01;06
Speaker 1
There was never an issue. So when it was brought up to when I was brought up for my mom, I was like, Yeah, let’s I’ll go like, well, let’s let’s see what we’re, we’re, we’re ones. And so we found our meeting on downtown Chicago in a church and she dropped me off. So that was at the age of 23.
00;14;01;08 – 00;14;28;23
Speaker 1
And for my first meeting I was probably about 12 people in there. And hey, you’re in a room full of people with the same problem. And, you know, you give a therapy, which is, you know, you kind of talk about what brought you into the room and talk about your story a little bit. So I raised my hand and kind of gave a little bit of a preview of my gambling history and where I was currently at in my life with that.
00;14;28;23 – 00;14;41;02
Speaker 1
And, you know, probably throughout the the entire therapy, I cried my eyes out and it was very eye opening experience for me.
00;14;41;05 – 00;15;01;28
Speaker 2
Okay. So so you were able to get into a Gamblers Anonymous meeting. You mentioned this already, but I want to go back and and kind of zero in on it. You mentioned that you always kind of knew that you had a gambling problem, but there had to be some point in there that really kind of brought it home for you.
00;15;02;01 – 00;15;06;29
Speaker 2
Right. Do you recall what that moment may have been?
00;15;07;02 – 00;15;44;03
Speaker 1
I you know, that’s a good question. I don’t think it was one particular situation. I think it was just a basically like a hurricane of all kinds of different situations, which is, you know, not being able to sleep, lying, cheating, crying myself to sleep, having suicidal feelings. And I think all of those mixed together and even like, you know, dragging my family into a dragging my girlfriend, dragging my girlfriend’s mother into it, having her cosign for same day loans for me.
00;15;44;05 – 00;15;57;01
Speaker 1
So it was it was definitely a mixture of, you know, a lot of different things that added up to to me coming to the conclusion that I was I had a real big problem, you know, and I needed to get help for it.
00;15;57;03 – 00;16;18;18
Speaker 2
Yeah, man, sometimes that’s a tough realization, but at the same time it’s somewhat comforting, right? Especially when you get into and you find a group like you did there. How, how long were you engaged with that group, or are you still engaged with that group?
00;16;18;20 – 00;16;41;21
Speaker 1
Yeah, I you know, after the meeting, I really liked I really liked my first meeting. I walked out of that meeting saying to myself that I don’t have it as bad as the people in the rooms, but if I don’t stop, it can get to that point. So for me, you know, I was like, I’ll go back.
00;16;41;21 – 00;17;10;28
Speaker 1
But it wasn’t like I’m rushing to go back. So I think periodically I would go back now and again. And, you know, pretty much my history of going to meetings probably for the next eight years was I would pretty much only go when I had a really bad loss. My family stopped talking to me, but I would never really stick around when things were really good in my life.
00;17;11;00 – 00;17;36;02
Speaker 2
So you go to the gym meeting, recognize that you’re not as bad off as a as some of the other people there, which I think is kind of an interesting observation. And I’m wondering what was the age difference? You know, you’re a fairly young guy. Were most of the people that were in this group or the older?
00;17;36;04 – 00;17;44;15
Speaker 1
Yeah, the majority Gamblers Anonymous in my twenties, the average age in those rooms, I would say probably early to mid fifties.
00;17;44;18 – 00;18;08;26
Speaker 2
Okay. Yeah. Because I mean, I remember back when I was 20, right. And you know, any time we would go back and look back, then there’s a fair amount of hubris that comes with being a youngster in your early twenties, even mid twenties. Heck. So I kind of understand when you say, well, I, I didn’t feel like I need to go every week.
00;18;09;02 – 00;18;30;06
Speaker 2
So you continue to gamble and at some point though, you kind of come to the realization that you’re going to get serious about this, right? And was there anything in particular that kind of drove you to that point that, hey, I really I’ve really got to put some focus on this area?
00;18;30;08 – 00;18;53;17
Speaker 1
Yeah. I mean, while there’s still some stuff that happened before I got to that point, if you don’t mind me, if I share some of that. Yeah. So, so in and out of the program from 23 to 31. So everything just got worse, right? So this is a disease that does not stay the same and it doesn’t get better if you don’t stop, it only progressively gets worse.
00;18;53;20 – 00;19;19;01
Speaker 1
I usually categorize it as a revolving door of misery and yeah, everything, everything got worse. The relationship got worse. The friend borrowing money off of friends, you know, they they kind of got tired of it. And even friends I knew that had money. They just kind of cut me off too. And the betting amount and losses got worse and worse.
00;19;19;03 – 00;19;37;01
Speaker 1
My parents then my my mother finally brought my dad into the mix and let him know what was going on. And so I would do whatever I could and not ask them for money. I would, you know, started asking people that I never in a million years thought I would ask for money. Yeah.
00;19;37;04 – 00;19;48;01
Speaker 2
I interrupt you there. Said, Yeah, yeah, sure. And you mentioned that you’re at your 31 at this point. And this is a from.
00;19;48;06 – 00;19;50;17
Speaker 1
My husband, this is my mid-twenties at this point, my middle.
00;19;50;19 – 00;20;02;18
Speaker 2
Mid twenties. Okay. Yeah. But that’s the first that your father’s learning about this, correct. That had to be an impactful moment.
00;20;02;20 – 00;20;24;22
Speaker 1
You know, it was and especially since he had the experience with, you know, my mother’s mother, his, his mother in law. And yeah, he never really could understand, you know, the addiction. And I used to just tell him I’m like, you know, it’s not for you to understand, you know, you’re not an addict. And, you know, sometimes he would just say he’s like, I don’t I don’t get it.
00;20;24;24 – 00;20;44;22
Speaker 1
Why can’t you just stop? You know? And I always thought that was that was funny because, like, addiction obviously doesn’t work that way. And it just got worse and worse. And then one night, I think around 24, 25, they had looked up the meeting online and they said, you know, tomorrow it was a it was a Tuesday night.
00;20;44;22 – 00;21;03;28
Speaker 1
And they said, we’re going to a meeting tomorrow night and we’re coming with you. And I said, okay. So they looked on the website, They found a meeting that was actually close to my grandfather’s house, and my mom picked it and I went to that meeting and it was the biggest AA meeting I ever seen him, you know, prior about 25 people in that room.
00;21;04;00 – 00;21;26;03
Speaker 1
The room I was normally going to was, you know, anywhere from 10 to 12 people. Sure. So it was very overwhelming. It was a closed meeting. So there’s open meetings and there’s closed meetings and Gamblers Anonymous and a closed meeting is basically only only gay members are allowed in. And an open meeting means anybody can come into the room.
00;21;26;06 – 00;21;51;25
Speaker 1
So out of respect for the guideline, they allowed my parents to listen to like two therapies and then luckily enough, across the hall was Cameron, which is a yeah, which is a support group for friends, family of people who are gamblers and they have their own meeting.
00;21;51;27 – 00;21;52;21
Speaker 2
Yeah.
00;21;52;23 – 00;22;22;12
Speaker 1
So they went across the hall. You know, usually when you go into those meetings, like you’re kind of told the hard truth and it’s kind of scary with what the family members are told and what the parents are told. So my, my, my parents were kind of scared a little bit because they gave them some hard truth that they didn’t want to hear about me, but that I think that meeting I took to really well, I really like the it’s kind of it was known as a tough love meeting.
00;22;22;14 – 00;22;42;09
Speaker 1
I mean, people would people would come into this room saying that they avoided this room because they were scared of all that, because they were scared. They’ve heard so many, you know, tough love stories about this room. But I like that That’s how I kind of how I was raised. And, you know, as much as sometimes I didn’t like to hear truths, I knew deep down it was good for me.
00;22;42;11 – 00;22;45;02
Speaker 2
Right? So it resonated with you?
00;22;45;05 – 00;22;46;00
Speaker 1
Absolutely.
00;22;46;03 – 00;22;47;21
Speaker 2
Yeah.
00;22;47;23 – 00;23;16;23
Speaker 1
But I still wasn’t ready, you know, 24, 25. You know, I again, come in, stick around for three months, you know, go back out, maybe not gamble for three months, six months, get myself in trouble. You know, my life’s ending. My parents are talking to me. I’m desperate. Need to go to a meeting. And I just kind of did that routine, you know, through my mid twenties and.
00;23;16;25 – 00;23;55;08
Speaker 1
And and late twenties. And then. And then something happened at the age of 28 where I got into a altercation at a bar. Unfortunately, the person that I got into the altercation with got hurt really bad. And the result of that was three months in county jail. Okay. And you know, it’s crazy because somebody on the outside looking in could think, okay, that had nothing that fight had nothing to do with your gambling.
00;23;55;11 – 00;24;21;24
Speaker 1
But in all reality, it had everything to do with my gambling because gambling creates so many other different, you know, feelings and actions, you know, anger, rage, you know, you know, after a loss, you know, you’re you’re feeling all these negative feelings and everything’s built up. So, you know, if I was in recovery, if I was working a good program, you know, I probably wouldn’t have got in that situation.
00;24;21;24 – 00;24;54;28
Speaker 1
So it all ties together. So, yeah. And I’m spending three months in county jail. And at that point, the gambling was so bad that my mother said that it you in a weird way, I feel I feel safe that you’re in jail because you can’t gamble, you know. And it’s and that that really hit me hard. It was it was it was really tough to hear that, You know, I think her my brother, my father, I think I think they really were zoned in on going to jail.
00;24;55;00 – 00;25;19;14
Speaker 1
Doesn’t help him stop gambling. Nothing. Well, and they were 100% wrong because the only thing that really could could save me and stop me from gambling was Gamblers Anonymous. So they did three months and two weeks after I got out of out of jail. I’m sorry. Gambling again.
00;25;19;17 – 00;25;21;10
Speaker 2
How old were you at this point?
00;25;21;13 – 00;25;23;15
Speaker 1
I am 29.
00;25;23;17 – 00;25;34;07
Speaker 2
Okay. So you continue to gamble there. And up until you said there was a watershed moment when you were 31. And what was that?
00;25;34;09 – 00;25;59;07
Speaker 1
Yeah. So. So gamble for the next two years. And then again, months of my parents and it seemed like, you know, they bail me out again as parents, you know, and I’m not a pair of myself, but you’d have to think, you know, if I were to put myself in their shoes, you know, if I don’t pay this off, this debt off, you know, potentially my son could could harm himself, kill himself.
00;25;59;10 – 00;26;20;02
Speaker 1
Right. And I think that’s what their biggest worry was. So they they always did, knowing that it wasn’t good for them to bail me out. They always bailed me out. And the last time they bail me out, they kind of turned their backs on me. And, you know, usually usually what would happen as they would bail me out, be upset, not talk to me for a couple of weeks, and then it would slowly come back.
00;26;20;02 – 00;26;45;05
Speaker 1
Like that was the routine that we did for, you know, ten years. Sure. And, you know, this time was different. I mean, they had lasted months. And, you know, usually, like, it was kind of weird because a lot of the times that I had asked them for money was always around like some type of holiday. And and they would always ask me, like, even if they didn’t like me, they would always say, listen, we understand what’s going on, but you need to be with your family on the holiday.
00;26;45;09 – 00;27;11;09
Speaker 1
This is you know, you need to be here with us. And I was like, you know, petty party. I was like, not all deserve to be there. And and my dad just made sure that I was there. And and I this last time, which was February. Summary 2012. Then Easter rolled around and I got a text message from my brother saying that we don’t want you.
00;27;11;12 – 00;27;40;05
Speaker 1
You’re not you’re not welcome and welcome at Ed Easter dinner this year. And, you know, for me, that was a that her a lot and I felt alone and I was alone and I think I think that was that was the start of it. I think you know people a lot of people ask me what was the what was the defining moment?
00;27;40;05 – 00;28;04;24
Speaker 1
What made you all put made it click into. To me, it wasn’t one thing. It was it was a bunch of things. And then they all added up to just slowly, one day at a time, just the recovery just started to get better and better. And I just started to see, I guess you could say, the light more and more and things started to become more clear for me.
00;28;04;26 – 00;28;43;00
Speaker 1
You know, just the support I had early on in 2012 and trying to keep busy. I always tell new members, like keeping busy early on is so important, keeping keeping their mind busy away from from gambling. And I was lucky enough actually in January I signed up for the Chicago Marathon. So during those those early months I was training for Chicago Marathon and that was, you know, there’s a lot of like studies on and how you know, working out and and running and all that it can like is helpful towards addictions depression and that helped out a lot.
00;28;43;00 – 00;29;09;19
Speaker 1
And then I always I always always mention this story in my rooms when I talk about my story, I about three months clean. I made a phone call to a member who I’ve known since I’ve been 23 and an older, older, older gentleman in the program. And, you know, I’ve always, you know, had a connection with and we always got along and he was always there for me.
00;29;09;22 – 00;29;28;25
Speaker 1
And I call him up, you know, he my ego calls him up. And I was just like, I wanted to get up here on the back. So I was like, you know, how do you think I’m doing? And he said he said, okay, well, well, how long have you not gambled for anything? I owe three months. He goes, okay, well, that’s good.
00;29;28;25 – 00;29;43;06
Speaker 1
You you have and gamble for three months. He’s like, it’s like you’re you’re, you’re not doing anything differently. He goes, You’ve been doing the same thing over and over and you’re getting the same results. He goes until you do something different.
00;29;43;09 – 00;29;48;21
Speaker 2
What does? Nothing. I was going to ask you, what do you mean by that or how did you interpret that?
00;29;48;23 – 00;30;14;26
Speaker 1
So what he meant by that was, you know, you suggested you go to two meetings a week, not one. You get a sponsor, you never got of a sponsor and start working the program the way the program asked you to work at night. Not Jimmy, not not Jimmy Masters way and then he said, which was which is really like, you want to talk about tough love?
00;30;14;26 – 00;30;36;22
Speaker 1
And he said, and I think it was a really big I think it was definitely geared towards my ego and I didn’t realize how big my ego was. And he said, To be completely honest with you, if I were to have a conversation with your mother today, I would tell her how much of an asshole you are. So I had to eat that.
00;30;36;25 – 00;30;39;13
Speaker 2
And did he explain what he meant by that?
00;30;39;15 – 00;31;03;12
Speaker 1
No, he didn’t have to explain. I already knew. Irene knew. For me. What that meant was I wasn’t the person I thought I was. And I need to really take this serious and. And whatever I was doing before. It needs to stop. And I need to just. Just listen and take the advice and that’s it and shut up.
00;31;03;14 – 00;31;07;18
Speaker 2
yeah. So sometimes those old dudes can spin gold, right?
00;31;07;21 – 00;31;16;13
Speaker 1
Yeah, Yeah. Our, our, our Wednesday night meeting was gold. I mean, it. They really, really told you all was all right.
00;31;16;15 – 00;31;27;08
Speaker 2
So you took his advice and just kind of doubled down on the extra meetings and really kind of hitting this head on from that point on?
00;31;27;11 – 00;31;58;17
Speaker 1
Yeah, I think. I think that was the start of my recovery and really working, working a good program and working the program. Howard asked me to do Fred’s view work, which is, you know, going being consistent consistency. Consistency was, was, was everything. Make sure I got two meetings a week, make sure that I am in contact with people outside the rooms, make sure I get a sponsor and I work the steps, which is the 12 steps, right.
00;31;58;24 – 00;32;07;12
Speaker 1
And yeah, that first year was just kind of really just doing whatever was suggested for me to do.
00;32;07;15 – 00;32;13;06
Speaker 2
And if you don’t mind sharing, how how long has that been?
00;32;13;08 – 00;32;17;25
Speaker 1
It’s a little. This past February was 12 years. So I’m a little over 12 years now.
00;32;17;28 – 00;32;27;02
Speaker 2
12 years in recovery since since you really took that advice and you and you threw yourself into the program.
00;32;27;05 – 00;32;36;12
Speaker 1
Yeah. So it’s it’s been the program total, what, 12 years. But in recovery, working a healthy program for 12 years.
00;32;36;14 – 00;33;09;15
Speaker 2
Okay. So what’s what’s you know in terms of we talked a little bit about the support network and you’ve kind of illustrated for everybody how important that is. What does it mean to you? I mean, is it do you point to that and say that’s absolutely. You know, the one thing that anybody that is planning to go down this road of recovery to a gambling disorder, you absolutely have to have that network in place.
00;33;09;17 – 00;33;34;18
Speaker 1
Yeah. I mean, you know, I heard I heard the other the other day somebody said in a meeting the opposite of addiction is connection. And I was kind of like confused about that. But but then I kind of look deeper into it and, you know, connections with people, connections with people in the rooms, connections with people that can relate to you.
00;33;34;20 – 00;34;02;04
Speaker 1
And, you know, I’ve heard people come in and out of the rooms and talk about I have a priest and I have a therapist, and these are all great things. I mean, you know, more the merrier. But DEA is is our is my medicine. J is the medicine for me. And, you know, the support group for me is, you know, I when I, when I used to come in and I was in and out, I used to say, I have to tell people, you know, I have these are my these are my gamblers, anonymous friends.
00;34;02;04 – 00;34;24;28
Speaker 1
And then I have my personal friends, people I grew up with. And right when I started working a really good program, it wasn’t supper anymore. You know, the gay people became my family. Things happened in my life over the years and things still happened. And first, people I call are people in the room. People? Sure. People that hear, hear my voice every week.
00;34;25;00 – 00;34;52;09
Speaker 1
And so I lean on them, you know, you know, you talk about, you know, how important it is just in general, with or without an addiction. Life is hard and we need help. You know, I and I understand that then, you know, people have a hard time asking for help. One one of the really things that’s special about our room and that we’re really, really big on, which we stress so much is vulnerability.
00;34;52;11 – 00;35;14;18
Speaker 1
And we talk about how vulnerability our slogan in our in our room is vulnerability is a superpower. We want you to come in these rooms and we want you to, you know, talk about what’s going on and without any judgment on our part. And the more and more that you can open up and be honest with the room, be honest with yourself.
00;35;14;20 – 00;35;27;12
Speaker 1
You know, there’s you you get whatever you put out there, you get back. And and that’s really a special thing that we have in our rooms is the vulnerability factor.
00;35;27;14 – 00;36;06;28
Speaker 2
Wow What a what a powerful story. And I appreciate you having the willingness to come on and talk to us about it because I think, you know, having a personal story like this and the willingness to share can go a long way to reaching people that were with otherwise wouldn’t reach. So I appreciate that there is there is one thing that that you had mentioned when we were together at the end of March is, you know, your desire to really pay it forward or pay it back, whichever you want to look at.
00;36;07;04 – 00;36;28;07
Speaker 2
What are some of the things that that you have in the works or some plans that you have ways to pay it back? And in terms of, you know, not just not just participating with the G8 group, but I seem to remember you were talking about some potential going out and doing some public speaking and things like that.
00;36;28;10 – 00;36;55;22
Speaker 1
Yeah, there was I mean, there’s we have a we have our own gamut. Thomas has has conferences and I’ve I’ve done some, you know, some speaking there. I’ve done some speaking in our rooms. And just because of the huge wave of gambling that’s entered our society since it’s been legalized, it’s just war. And we’re at a point where, you know, I feel like we’re under attack by this legal gambling.
00;36;55;24 – 00;37;22;22
Speaker 1
And I think our voice needs to be more and more voices need to be out there to spread awareness and any opportunity I can to spread any kind of awareness to, you know, let people know, especially parents. I think parents should really be aware because this gambling is really going after some of the most vulnerable people which are which our children.
00;37;22;22 – 00;37;55;08
Speaker 1
You know, you’re talking I’m hearing stories of 14, 15 year olds in high school finding ways to bet online and while they’re in school. And, you know, that’s that’s when these addictions really take hold and that’s when a lot of these, you know, gambling sites, you know, they’re they’re they’re attacking children. And it starts early on, you know, as like as I mentioned earlier, you know, even starts at five years old, you know, playing cards with my grandparents for for, you know, for pennies and quarters.
00;37;55;11 – 00;38;19;00
Speaker 1
And now the the Annies, you know, whereas the animal you’re having children see this all over spread everywhere kind of could kind of could compare it to like almost like cigarets. Right. Like they made Cigarets so cool, right? Like everybody in the movies and smoking Cigarets like, you know, they had the billboards. They had the, the, the cartoon camel, you know, character.
00;38;19;00 – 00;38;42;18
Speaker 1
And that’s their kind of advertising. Yeah, that’s what they’re kind of. Yeah, they’re kind of advertising now. They’re not kind of they are advertising this to everybody, especially children that this is this is really cool. Look, you have you have Wayne Gretzky, you know, promoting this. You have all these athletes promoting this. You have these actors promoting it, and they’re just making it like this is the coolest thing to do.
00;38;42;21 – 00;39;17;11
Speaker 2
Yeah, well, it’s normalized. Yeah, to a certain extent. It’s it’s hyper normalized because even even when you’re watching this sport that’s being broadcast, whether baseball, football, basketball, you’ve got the in-game betting lines that are, you know, dotted around the frame of the action. Right. So and we’re kind of inundated with it. And there’s no doubt about that. And, you know, you think about you brought up the children.
00;39;17;11 – 00;40;09;06
Speaker 2
I mean, you look at some of the video games that kids are being exposed to. There’s so many elements within those games that are gambling, even though there might not be some money exchanging hands there. It’s it’s set up to establish a pattern of getting comfortable with gambling. Right. And then as the as kids, you know, just naturally kind of gravitate towards it and it is so accessible today and we talk about that quite a bit during most of the episodes that we that we produce and we talk about the accessibility of gambling and gaming is is maddening to a certain degree because it’s just is so pervasive and it’s seeped into every it’s seeped
00;40;09;06 – 00;40;15;26
Speaker 2
into every corner of and of our lives. It seems like it’s hard to get away from it.
00;40;15;29 – 00;40;40;24
Speaker 1
Yeah. And, and the thing is, is that we talk about a lot our rooms is, you know, money comes and goes, right? And you’re always mostly everybody is going to have bills for the rest of their lives and but the time being president and people’s lives being present for your your child’s 16th birthday, like if you’re not present for that, you can’t get back that 16th birthday.
00;40;40;26 – 00;40;46;03
Speaker 1
And that’s that that’s when we lose out on the most is is is the time.
00;40;46;05 – 00;40;47;00
Speaker 2
Yeah.
00;40;47;02 – 00;41;05;12
Speaker 1
You know even even you know now now there are sports books in every stadium. Now you go in the United Center, they’re making make it seem cool. And you’re going to have you’re going to have fathers taking their their kids to the games. And. Well, let me let me place a bet. Let me make this more interesting. Let me let me play this about let me cover to try to cover the tickets at this thing.
00;41;05;14 – 00;41;25;25
Speaker 1
You know, instead of being in the moment with your child and enjoying a game now, it’s now it’s it has flipped and now it has switched to I have money in this game and it’s going to make the game more interesting. And that’s going to you know, you could be standing, sitting next to your son or daughter, but just because you’re physically next to them doesn’t mean you’re present.
00;41;25;27 – 00;41;30;04
Speaker 1
And I think that’s the the illusion of of gambling, too.
00;41;30;06 – 00;41;56;06
Speaker 2
Yeah, it’s a good point. wow. I’m glad. I’m glad you’re out there. I’m the I’m the public sphere or public square, I should say. The public public square. Tell him telling your message, because it’s we’ve got to have a heck of a story. And I appreciate you sharing with us and with our listeners.
00;41;56;08 – 00;41;58;10
Speaker 1
And thanks for having me. I appreciate it.
00;41;58;12 – 00;42;24;01
Speaker 2
Absolutely. We love hearing from you. So please take a moment to like, share and comment on our podcast. You can reach out to us directly via email at Wage or Danger at Gateway Foundation dot org. Look for us on Facebook and Twitter at Recovery Gateway on LinkedIn at Gateway Dash Foundation, or through our Web site at Gateway Foundation.org
00;42;24;01 – 00;42;51;10
Speaker 2
Wager Danger is supported through funding in whole or in part through a grant from the Illinois Department of Human Services and the Division of Substance to Use Prevention and recovery. And remember, recovery is a lifelong process. If you are a family member struggling with a gambling problem, call Gateway at 8449753663 and speak with one of our counselors for confidential assessment.
