Seeking Understanding | Problem Gambling and Harm Reduction Resource Fair

In this episode, we step outside the studio to attend and speak with guests attending a resource fair during problem gambling awareness month. Hosted by Healthcare Alternative Systems (HAS) and co-sponsored by Gateway Foundation, the event space was filled with energy and engaging conversations about gambling addiction and the power of recovery.

Healthcare Alternative Systems (HAS) – hascares.org

Event Link: https://www.instagram.com/has.chicago/p/DHl9H1xv1nQ/

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Are you Really Winning?

[Transcript]

Shane:

Welcome to Wager Danger, a podcast where we discuss gambling addiction and recovery. I’m your host, Shane Cook, gambling disorder program director at Gateway Foundation. And on this episode, we’re leaving the studio and going on another remote adventure.

Crowd Noises

This time we headed out to the problem gambling and harm Reduction resource Fair

on the West side of Chicago hosted by Health Care Alternative Systems or Haase, and co-sponsored by Gateway Foundation.

This event is part of Problem Gambling Awareness Month, and the space was filled with energy and real conversations about gambling addiction and the power of recovery.

This year’s theme is seeking understanding. And that’s exactly what we’re doing.

Opening Remarks from HAS:

Together, we are breaking the silence, reducing stigma and ensuring that no one has to face this struggle alone. And as we see firsthand the toll that gambling addiction can take on financial security, mental health relationships, and the overall well-being of a person.

Let’s replace judgment with compassion. Let’s replace stigma with solutions. Let’s replace isolation with support.

Shane:

All around the rooms, we see people sharing stories, connecting with resources, and having those tough but necessary conversations about Gambling’s impact on their lives.

We had brief conversations with several participants, including keynote speaker Cassandra Belton.

Cassandra Belton:

I never really met other black women that were gamblers. Even when I went gambling, I didn’t make a friend. And I tell you, I used to be on three and four machines. I really wanted to create a space for black women.

Shane:

We also spoke with Mimi and Jennifer from the Midwest Asian Health Association about gambling issues in the Asian community.

Mimi:

It’s been very difficult to kind of talk to people about gambling just because gambling isn’t really seen as a big issue,

Shane:

Kimberly about starting her gambling recovery after years of substance abuse.

Kimberly:

I think that me sharing with some people now, have some accountability,

Shane:

Kolby Lofton on his youth advocacy work.

Kolby:

The bombardment, that’s the biggest problem. So as an 11 year old, I would have to, guess who’s going to win those games. And then the reward would be virtual currency. Right?

Shane:

And event organizer Tiffany Webb for her takeaways from the gathering,

Tiffany:

does that look like when individuals are trying to get, support? We have to identify them. And if we don’t know where to look, we’re not helping.

Shane:

But we begin with Jimmy, who has been a guest on the show before, and he updated us on his recovery journey, as well as his new endeavor to support the community.

You started your own podcast. Tell us about that. How did you get there?

Jimmy:

It’s been really awesome, actually. 2021, me and, another, gamblers Anonymous member who I happened to, sponsor at the time. We’re talking about how there really isn’t anything out there for gambling recovery. You see, a lot of podcasts on the other end of it, how to make Money. But not really the dark stories, right?

So I’ve kind of just been sitting on that for a few years. I spoke at a, gambling, conference a year ago where I ran into you. You know, so I kind of really just. I believe everything does happen for a reason, and, I’m exactly where I’m supposed to be. And, I believed, it was the right time that I ran into you.

You had me on your podcast, big last year, and it kind of sparked me to get going with it. So I started a podcast, the February 27th, two episodes have been, launched so far. It’s been really going great. And the feedback has been really in front of a lot of, a lot of people reaching out with, not just, for feedback, but their own personal stories.

Shane:

All right. So what’s the name of the podcast?

Jimmy:

The name of the Podcast is, gambling recovery taking back your life.

Shane:

Okay. And we were talking a little bit earlier today, and you’re sharing with me some of the people that have reached out. Some of the people that you’re, pursuing as guests. Tell us a little bit about that. Who who are you targeting? Who’s showed interest and and coming on and discussing their own recovery journey.

Jimmy:

That’s a great question. I, Yeah. So, you know, initially, the initial thought of what I was going to do the podcast on would be, gamblers. People in my program coming out of it and sharing their story. I think that’s the best way to kind of break this thing, just, is to, and the best way to kind of educate people on what’s going on is, the gambling world is that, for people to tell their stories.

Real, raw, stories. So that was my, that’s like my main, target. But I think I think what’s most important is to, bring on all aspects of it, which is, not only the gamblers, but that maybe family members of gamblers, spouses of gamblers, even children of gamblers. Friends, you know, so that everybody can kind of see both sides.

Also, like, I’m, I’m pretty much open now. But, like, you know, gambling therapists, in 2021, I reached I in 2021, I read an article, by this journalist from Australia. He currently lives in New York. He wrote for the Guardian and, it’s really amazing. Article. What I didn’t know was, in Australia, gambling, gambling was legalized over 30 years ago.

So the article was pretty much based off of, what he’s seen in society. After gambling was legal. And what he is basically saying that it’s coming to America. So from an article, I’ve always kind of had that in back of my head. So, like, I bring people on like that. So I’ll be on the, April 15th, episodes.

Shane:

Okay. And you drop an episode every other week?

Jimmy:

Every two weeks.

Shane:

Every two weeks?

Jimmy:

Yeah. We have a Tuesday.

Shane:

Okay. Excellent.

Next. Me and Jennifer from Midwest Asian Health Association, or Maha stopped, by the way, to your booth to raise awareness about problem gambling in the Asian American community. They highlighted frequent bus trips between Chinatown and casinos, noting the gambling debt carries significant shame. But lacks the stigma associated with drug addiction.

Mimi:

Hi. My name is Mimi, I’m from Midwest Asian Health Association,

Shane:

Also known as?

Mimi:

Maha. That’s right. Oh. So, yeah. So we’re also known as my MAHA, we’re an organization located in Chinatown. And we provide a variety of services. And some of my services include the, gambling, prevention and treatment program and also the substance use, prevention and treatment programs at MAHA.

Shane:

Excellent. So what brought you out today?

Mimi:

Yeah. So we’ve been we have a really good relationship with Healthcare Alternative Systems, or HAS. And Tiffany invited us to come, and she was like, oh, you know something Mimi, you should hop on this podcast. And also, of course, like, you can take more of a listen to some of the lived experience. I was like, this sounds amazing.

Shane:

Yeah. All right. Well, welcome to Wager Danger. Excellent to have you here. And you have, someone joining you here today?

Mimi:

Yes, she is my colleague, Jennifer Jordan. She is the gambling and substance use treatment program manager. And she is also our family advocacy, center program manager as well.

Shane:

Excellent.

Jennifer:

Hi, everyone. My name is Jennifer Jordan, and as many mentioned, I am the program manager for our Family Advocacy Center. And also substance use and gambling addiction.

And I should say that we’re really happy to be here. I think this is a great, outreach effort to promote problem gambling, having that clear understanding with the lived experience, I think that’s great. You know, for people to be able to relate to other people’s story and, you know, them knowing that I’m not alone in this. Other people have been through this as well. And that there’s hope for recovery,

Mimi:

The Asian community we service most. Well, the people around us is mostly Chinese, right. It’s been very difficult to kind of talk to people about gambling just because gambling isn’t really seen as a big issue, okay. Or worse. But when things get really bad where people are taking out loans, and, and family members get worried, they kind of keep it like hush hush. They don’t talk about it. And then the person who’s dealing with those problems, they don’t want to seek out because they’re very embarrassed. And, so we’ve been doing a lot of outreach at the Chinatown library. Bally’s casino being and like, close to Chinatown, right. And, busses actually stopped right in front of the library. We’ve screened a lot of people, and a lot of people are like, oh, yeah, I just go there after work. or, oh, I just came from the Mah-Jong parlour, and I’m about to go have fun more. And some of them have expressed where their family members, like, who are scared that they are at a casino they’re aren’t at a mahjong parlor, what’s going on? And they have told us that their son or daughter would take them to the casino or give them money, just so that, you know, they can be there. And we’ve had had experiences where family members come to us. They let us know that their families have more than 1000 of dollars, not just like 1 or 2, like more than $10,000.

They’re like, I don’t know what to do. They don’t want to seek help, though. We hard but they want to seek help is when they own money, and they need someone to kind of get them out of that debt. And how we kind of approach it is more of like a soft conversation of like, hello, how’s it going? And then when they tell us that they do like that, they do, gamble, we try to ask them like, okay, how often do right after work or every other day I’m like, oh, what are some of the things that you like to do? Kind of like talking about like what are some alternatives? They can do? Sure. Of course we also like try to like push slightly on being like, hey, Maha, also have like, you know, treatment services. If you want to talk to somebody. We are here. Or we can of course, like find somewhere else because there’s also that stigma where people don’t want to seek help in. In the community. Right.

Because there’s that shame of like, oh, I know you. I want to tell everybody around. Yeah. You’re like, I’m going in this place, seeking help.

Shane:

Right. And oftentimes that’s way overblown for the individual. Right. Because I would assume, if you meet up with somebody in treatment, they have the same concerns. So they’re not going to go out and, tell all their neighbors, do you know who was here? So I hopefully, hopefully, you know, there’s the opportunity to get beyond that stigma.

But I know it runs deep.

Jennifer

it’s definitely a close knit community. But I feel though what I’ve experienced is that, you know, one family member families are kind of somewhat connected. Okay. That’s where you know, oh, no. I don’t want anyone to know what’s happening. Right.

You know, or this is what it is really bad because it’s perceived that you have to. excell, you have to be great. You have to be number one in what you’re the hard working, over achieving. Right? So, yeah, that’s where it’s like we’re trying to break down the stigma. So we currently reach out to the Illinois Gaming Board. And so in addition to the individual counseling, the group counseling we also provide, self exclusion. Okay. Yeah. So we’ve been getting a lot of individuals calling, regarding I want to get off I want to stop gambling. Like how do I get off, you know, how do I stop this? What do I need to do? So, that’s been well received.

The population that we’ve we noticed that is that mostly older women.

Okay, interesting. Yeah, yeah. Just to know,

And we’ve had a few younger males come in and say like, no, this needs to stop. You know, I’ve lost my job. My family has want to do with me. I have no money. So, yeah, the services are definitely there. Like I said, you know, having events like this, you know, having people know that there’s treatment and service and help available,

Shane:

The keynote speaker was next to join us. Cassandra Belton shared a story of how she started her gambling support group during the pandemic, and how they continue to meet every week to support each other.

Cassandra:

The name of the group was Lotus Sisters and how it’s orgsnized by myself. Let me say that this woman’s name is Miss D.

When I saw her at the first zoom meeting, I introduced myself to her, and we developed a friendship. And then when I became acquainted with and going to an all female meeting, I really wanted to create a space for black women. And with that, I asked another black woman, Miss D, hey, do you think this is a good idea to do?

And I had to do some convincing to do significant convincing, because this person felt that the rooms that were being offered in GA was sufficient.

Let’s let’s just try it.

She said okay. And with that came four other women. And I started to go to more meetings and just tell other women, hey, we’re creating a group. And that’s how the Lotus Sisters formed with 12, 12 women.

Shane:

Excellent. So the advantage of having that group that you built, what were some of the advantages? I guess that’s the question.

Cassanndra:

Definitely the time, the timing. We could all be connected. okay. Even though geographically we were all in different places. Right. So it’s a virtual group, right?

So Sunday’s 5:00 PM works for everyone regardless if it was in California, if it was 2:00, 5:00 was an excellent time. And then the day of week Sundays. Yeah. Sundays was an. Advantage for, You know, you coming from service or Sundays as a down day. And this was during the pandemic.

So Sundays were a quiet time for us because we were all pretty much still that way. And Sundays we were even stiller.

You know quiet. We had a pre legal action pre meeting and we met for about maybe ten 15 minutes okay. and we agreed on that day. And I already had the zoom account set up. And I just gave them the, the address and the password. And the password has never actually changed from the very first meeting. Okay. Is still the same. So even if those 12 original founders, want to come.

Shane:

It’s still still there. Yeah.

Cassandra:

I really love expansion of Groups like this.

Regardless of the agency, if the agency is, maybe federal funding could be attached to it or state funding or local funding to something very similar because the group was so empowering even to this day, as I meet some of the sisters, we still are connected. They’re still spiraling where they don’t have wrap-around services.. So, the the lesson, the care that I realized and the space allowed us to share and to have fellowship, it was a space that became sacred, but also the ability to be with others.

But they’re not. This is such a human space and not other spaces that are similar. And if they are similar, it’s kind of the word of mouth. It’s almost like a secret society because I’m not above, listen. And one of the, the requirements for the Listserve is that it not to shared in spaces that may cause harm.

So even something like that where we’re in spaces like this, hopefully agencies will take it on and and write mission vision and find the participants because the women of the statistics show, statistics show it that this is, this is an ongoing issue in the United States that is probably going to increase, we’re probably going to see an influx of women that are suffering even younger.

We have the cell phones. We have so much accessibility to gaming. Online gaming or whether it be going to the casino, the scratchoffs, there’s so much accessibility, but they don’t care for it when they can come in an addictive state. There’s no care. So there’s a hole there is a hole and now you have a person that is addicted. But then where’s to care for the person. And so that for me, I love to see agencies, informal agencies.

Shane:

And then she told us her most significant takeaway from the conference. She was very moved after hearing Kimberly tell her story of being free from gambling for only two days.

Cassandra:

Knowing that I’m not alone.

Today know that someone had two days of sobriety. And knowing that from my share that it was okay to also do their share, was powerful to me. Because two days says a lot, but also, one person, one story. And to know that my story helps because I did not have anyone to necessarily hear or listen to.

I never really met other black women that were gamblers, even when I went gambling.

I didn’t make a friend.

And I tell you, I used to be on three and four machines, front and back, and I never made necessarily addictive friends. Glad that I didn’t. And I say that here in this space where I meet all kinds of people, brothers and sisters in recovery, it’s so refreshing to know that I’m not the only one that I can hear the hope I can hear the strength.

And I know that I created unique space for black women. And there was early in my addiction, member that was 40 years strong, that shared his story about the good recovery. And I listened. I listened profoundly to what he had to say. Didn’t look like me. Wasn’t the same sex.

But his story was profound about what to do with recovery.

His story. Keep making the meetings. Find your family. Find your recovery family especially. And listen for the nuggets. Listen for those nuggets as they say. So off the bone was what the saying? Spit out the bones.

You can eat the meat, And and throw out the bones, and those years where I can eat the meat I would take. Yeah. And the bones I would just spit out there. And today I’m hoping that that someone hears that you don’t have to suffer. You’re not alone.

And recovery is possible.

Shane:

Well said. Thank you so much.

Cassandra:

Thank you.

Shane:

After Cassandra stopped by, Kimberly came over to tell her story.

After over two decades of sobriety from substance abuse, she’s been battling gambling addiction. She only stopped two days ago. But as she noted, you need to take the first step in order to start.

Your first time sharing today?

Kimberly:

Yes. In regards to the gambling. Yes. Yeah. Yeah.

Shane:

So tell me what that was like. The feeling behind it.

Kimberly:

Relief.

Shane:

Relief.

Kimberly:

Again? I am a person familiar with 12 step program. 22 years of recovery from substance misuse.

I’m in denial about my gambling addiction. Right. And so, as I began to continue to visit at casinos more and watch how my life was spiraling down. I feel compelled now. I wasn’t compelled to. I was asked to come and share, reluctantly. But I kept trying to get out of this. Sure. And, it just didn’t happen. And I felt like it was this time for me to expose myself before I found myself in a worse situation.

Shane:

Okay. Yeah. Well, I certainly appreciate your story. And you’re sharing that. Emotionally, how did you express. It gave you relief. To do that.

Kimberly:

I think that relief comes because I’m no longer hiding Okay. He and I talked about. I’ve only had two days of not being at the casino, and, I’m still not sure. You know, if it’s going to stop in totality I think that, I’m torn between the harm reduction piece and things of that nature.

Okay. You know, there’s something has to change in my life, right? I think that me sharing with some people now, I have some accountability. Maybe some people who can encourage would be willing to encourage me and help me see myself for what it really is. Right. Like things for not only myself, but the people I love and the people that.

I’m in charge of.  I have. My daughters back home with me, with, young children. She needs my support. And they are with me right? If I’m sneaking into the casino where they sleep. And then I can provide them with, a McDonald’s breakfast in the morning or anything else until the next pay period.

Shane:

Right. Yeah.

Kimberly:

Borrowing money all the time.

That’s a problem. sure.

That’s the problem, guys. I’m a mature woman. I work, and no, I have great work ethic. I don’t make a lot of money, but I should not have to be calling hours after I get paid and asking for some finacial help.

I’m juggling to pay my rent and my car note and things of that nature.

I’m still in denial. Gambling has been in my family for a long time. Sure. My mother, my family raised us off of gambling money. I don’t know that I saw the downside to my family’s gambling. Right. I know I’m living in it.

I give some wins, and sometimes I can leave and be productive with it. Right. Sometimes I get some wins, and I can’t leave and be productive.

I haven’t, I don’t know, but I recognize that I have a problem, but I’m not sure if I want to continue in moderation. Am I deceiving myself? Possibly. But I, I would like to say that right now that I’m just going to stop. So what I’ve what I’ve been practicing is not, taking my debit card with me.

Yeah. The last time I went, I was totally resistant of calling anybody for any extra money. I don’t want. I don’t want to. I think that my recovery from substance misuse, that that shameful ness that I feel when I call someone experience that again. So the best thing to do is just not put myself in a position to call somebody.

And then that I’m even thinking of revisiting that therapist again. I did lose relationships, two very important relationships over the past couple of years, which I think intensified. Because, those were my two confidants. Right. And my gambling has increased in their absence.

So that’s what’s happening now. So I’m in grief. I don’t want to use any substance, but I don’t want to continue to take myself down this road.

Shane:

Next up was Kolby from North Lawndale College Prep. Kolby gave an enlightened speech about youth and problem gambling. Something we’ve covered a lot on this show. He’s working hands on in the neighborhoods of Chicago, and his work is bearing fruit.

Looking back at his own experience gaming as a youth. He now understands that when he was playing, the games were actually priming him for gambling.

Kolby:

So a little bit about myself, I’ve been working, and youth advocacy or, been a youth activist myself. Okay. For the last eight years. My biggest thing is making sure that, the youth have a seat at the table and, you know, the things that they need, need to be discussed with them and, for them.

So my goal is to always have them at the table, like I say, always a part of those conversations. So, anything dealing with the youth, concerning the youth or, empowering the youth? That’s that’s just my niche, right? Like, I love anything around the youth. So about a year ago, is when I met Tiffany Webb, and, we met at a violence conference, on the West side of Chicago.

And, we’ve just been in contact over the year, about different, events, things like that. And then she reached out to me like, hey, hosting the event, and I would love for you to bring the youth aspect. And I was like, you know, anything for you? Absolutely.

The bombardment, that’s the that’s the biggest problem. Just in a presentation. And as I mentioned during that presentation, was that, you know, me being as young as 11 or 12 years old playing a video game, and one aspect of that video game is daily, right?

As an 11 year old, the, the whole, point of that aspect, right, is to try to guess who will win the basketball game. Right? So say those three games that day, I will have to, you know, guess who’s going to win those games. And then the reward will be virtual currency. Right.

Me I’m thinking, oh I’m just playing a video game. Right.

And you know, I’m not gambling or anything, but I come to realize that now that I’m older, that, you know, they’re putting these things on us at an early age without us even knowing. It’s just like, you know, you when you’re watching a movie, right? Yeah. I my teen Shrek as an example, because, you know, watching Shrek as a, as a kid as one of my favorite movies.

But going back, watching Shrek is the adult. I’m like, you know, I asked my mom like, hey, this movie. Just for the simple fact that, you know, it’s a lot of things. It’s very, explicit to our youth. And they don’t know it. But it’s all just a gateway to Gambling

Shane:

And finally, we connected with Tiffany Webb, the organizer of the event, to get her assessment of the day’s activities.

Tiffany:

The theme for today was, seeking understanding, which became a problem gambling, harm reduction, resource fair. Hosted by Healthcare Alternative Systems and Gateway Foundation. Some of our objectives was to shine a light on, gambling awareness, the importance of different faces of recovery. And the different faces of gambling. And a couple of interesting new topics were, gambling and harm reduction.

Yeah. Individuals with lived experience, speaking from just as impacted incarceration and gambling and then youth and problem gambling. Right. So we’ve had and created safe spaces. What does that look like when individuals are trying to get, support? But we have to identify them. And if we don’t know where to look, we’re not helping. And so that was the goal of today’s resource fair.

Shane:

Yeah. And how do you feel about it?

Tiffany:

I’m really excited about the next steps. I feel like everyone left with something and it changed the conversation. And I think that’s where the, enhanced help and support services is breaking silence, taking the power away from addiction. I wanted to keep things about addiction, as anyone who knows about addiction is the lying in silence and isolation, creates more chaos, and chaos is fair.

And another key thing, as we’re speaking about it, just reflecting back on the moments is, Cassandra Belton. Her story of creating safe spaces and how she was able to identify, the different methods that she took to get to where she’s at now, right. How she recognized the need, and she identified a gap, and she tried to fill those spaces on her own, but she realized that she needed help.

And so that’s why I believe organizations such as ourselves, Healthcare Alternatives and gateway 1 800 GAMBLER learn how we can better support individuals who are doing this work.

Shane:

We love hearing from you. So please take a moment to like, share and comment on our podcast. You can reach out to us directly via email at Ouija Danger at Gateway Foundation dot org. Look for us on Facebook and Twitter at Recovery Gateway on LinkedIn at Gateway, Dash Foundation, or through our Web site at Gateway Foundation, Dawg. Wager Danger is supported through funding in whole or in part through a grant from the Illinois Department of Human Services and the Division of Substance to Use Prevention and Recovery.

And remember, recovery is a lifelong process. If you are a family member struggling with a gambling problem, call Gateway at 8449753663 and speak with one of our counselors for confidential assessment.