- February 07, 2025
- Gambling
From Midwest Book Review – Relatively few novels cover gambling addiction, in comparison to other forms of addiction, already making Shep and the King of Hearts notable…
Join Stacy and Shane as they discuss the motivations and underlying themes for her debut book.
Order the Book: Shep and the King of Hearts – Amazon
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Website: https://www.stacyladyman.com
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Transcript:
00;00;00;03 – 00;00;14;04
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No matter how deep you may be in a situation or loved ones you have are in a situation. There is hope on the other side and you can get there.
00;00;14;07 – 00;00;43;25
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Welcome to Wager Danger, a podcast where we discuss gambling addiction and recovery. I’m your host, Shane Cook, gambling disorder program director at Gateway Foundation. On this episode, we’re having a conversation with Stacy Ladyman, author of the new novel Shep and the King of Hearts. This is a moving story that emerged from a chance encounter in 2016, when Stacy walked into a church that was hosting a presentation about gambling addiction.
00;00;43;28 – 00;01;13;01
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What she didn’t know is it would unlock decades of buried emotions about losing her own father to this hidden addiction through fiction. Stacy bravely confronts the impact of gambling addiction on families and the universal human need for love and understanding. This isn’t just another addiction narrative. It’s a story about healing and hope. Welcome to the show, Stacy. Thanks for having me.
00;01;13;02 – 00;01;36;07
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I’m glad to be here. Congratulations on your debut novel, and I’m curious if you wouldn’t mind sharing with us the overall process you went through. And because, you know, it’s not something I anticipate. Your answer here a little bit. I’m assuming it’s not something you just wake up one day and say, you know, I’m going to write a novel.
00;01;36;09 – 00;01;58;00
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It’s there’s more of a process behind it. I’m wondering if you would share the process that you went through to get to this point. Well, absolutely. I never thought I would be writing a novel. It wasn’t in my wildest dreams that I would be doing that. I was a journalism major in college, and, you know, I used that.
00;01;58;02 – 00;02;29;13
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And in different ways. But never I did. I think I would be writing, a creative novel, but, this whole process took me quite a while, actually. It took me about nine years. Which, someone, in the writing circles, it’s like, how many words can you write a day? And I kind of put that across and divided the 29 years, and I came with a very few words.
00;02;29;16 – 00;02;59;27
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But, it it was a process. And it began with just a little still small voice saying, you know, you need to, to write this story. Or something similar. I really hadn’t come up with the way that it ended, totally, but I knew it was going to deal with with these subjects. So I kind of looked around and I took a writing class, from New York City, Gotham Writers.
00;02;59;29 – 00;03;28;21
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And it was an online class. And it was fantastic. The teacher started out. The first thing he, gave us as an assignment was to write a story about a trip you did not want to take. And I knew what that was. That that was part of what is about this book. But it at that actual story did not end up in this finished novel.
00;03;28;21 – 00;03;52;05
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But, these were the things I knew now that I had to deal with. But then, of course, Shane, you deal with all the things of can I do this? The fears, the, you know, am I good enough? Will this come out right? You know, so I began to surround myself with a lot of writers, go to critique groups, join writing associations, go to writing conferences.
00;03;52;05 – 00;04;35;29
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So it’s kind of a journey the whole way through. So when you say nine years, I think, okay, that’s nine years of the process. I, I suspect, though, that you had this in the back of your mind a little bit longer than that in terms of the overall story and wanting to, to tell the story, because this is a reflection if if I understand from our previous conversations and please correct me if I’m wrong, this is really a reflection of, situation that you personally lived through that is reflected in a fictional story that is really, I suspect it was a cathartic process for you to go through.
00;04;36;06 – 00;05;07;23
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So it’s the nine years, I understand the mechanical side of it. Being in the nine years, but emotionally it was a lot longer than that. Oh, yeah. Emotionally, I would say it’s been a lifetime, of of dealing with these feelings. And I, you know, some people say was this cathartic? I guess it was. But I felt like by the time I started writing this, I really and while I was writing it, I was constantly thinking of that reader.
00;05;07;23 – 00;05;44;03
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I was thinking of the person who was like me, or found themselves in the wake of, you know, gambling addiction. Just all those people out there, that would be in the throes of this. And so that gave me fuel to continue. You know, I just felt like. Yeah, there’s me, but there’s a lot of other people out there, too, that are dealing with this, and, and so, you know, it’s it’s hard because there’s, I find a lot of people don’t want to talk about the subject too much.
00;05;44;06 – 00;06;04;28
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And even in circles that you might think people would talk about it, they don’t necessarily want to do it. So it was a little bit it I’m at a point now that, yeah, I’m coming out with this. I want to talk about this issue and make awareness. And so that’s what I’m doing. Yeah. Well it’s unique to in that.
00;06;05;05 – 00;06;34;00
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And we don’t see a lot of this or we don’t hear a lot about it. This is a unique perspective that you provide here. This is not from the perspective of somebody who’s overcome a gambling addiction. This is the perspective of somebody who was affected by a family member’s addiction to gambling. So that’s what I think. It’s a very unique perspective that this book gives it.
00;06;34;02 – 00;07;01;04
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It does. And, you know, the journey not only for the character Chris, the main character, to try to come to grips with this father that has, you know, in the throes of his gambling addiction, which has created such an estrangement from him, not only from her perspective to try to she wants to solve that. She wants to make it better.
00;07;01;06 – 00;07;26;03
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And she tries everything in her professional life. She runs a, behavioral health hospital. So she thinks she has the tools to be able to do that professionally on her own. And, it’s just the two worlds kind of collide. He really isn’t in any mood to be, ready to to get fixed. And she wants to fix it.
00;07;26;03 – 00;08;00;19
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So that’s kind of how how the story unfolds. Sure. Okay. I do want to get into that a little bit, but, just to kind of, tie this off in terms of how you got started and what the what the, motivation, really became. I think it’s really interesting that it’s, mutual friend of ours that, was giving a presentation that you attended that really kickstarted this process and set the whole set the wheels in motion for this to happen.
00;08;00;19 – 00;08;31;02
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Do you do you want to share that story? I’d love to share that story that, that friend we’re talking about is Dan Trillo, who, is such a dynamo, kind of a guy. That’s how I describe Dan. And the way this I met him was, I was at church one Sunday morning, and I walked in and there was a little card on the bulletin board, and I was thinking about writing this story.
00;08;31;03 – 00;08;58;16
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You know, I was kind of beginning my classes and doing things, and there was a little card there that said, you know, gambling anonymous talk at this other church location on I think it was December sixth in 2016. And so I said, okay, I think I’ll go to that. And it began the the day came and it began snowing.
00;08;58;18 – 00;09;14;18
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And, you know, in Jersey, snowing at night, you know, you don’t know what it’s going to be. Is it going to be like a pile up, or is it going to be just a quick, couple of inches? So I told my husband, I said, I’m going to go out to this talk is not that far. And we realized the snow wasn’t going to be too bad.
00;09;14;18 – 00;09;43;02
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So I drove over there myself and, went in to this church. And of course, it was Christmas time. And it was a beautiful scene. I mean, the they had Christmas hymns playing in the sanctuary, and the sanctuary was just beautiful. And it was so peaceful and the snow was falling down. And but I sat there for a minute in the sanctuary and just I really didn’t want to go to this talk necessarily.
00;09;43;02 – 00;10;04;07
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I wanted to and I didn’t, you know. Right. So I went across the hallway and to my surprise, there there was Dan and, he was, you know, good looking, young, fit guy. And he was going to be the one giving a talk. And then there was some other men in the room, and I was the only woman.
00;10;04;07 – 00;10;26;10
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And, of course, you know, when I walked in there like, whoa, you know, this woman, she must have come because she’s in the throes of a gambling addiction. She wants to hear this talk, which was totally not what the situation was. But I introduced myself and I listened to Dan’s talk. And, you know, if you’ve ever heard his story, it’s really.
00;10;26;13 – 00;10;47;09
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It’s really, quite a story. And so afterwards, I told him that I was I told the men that were around, I said, you know, I’m thinking of writing this book and that my father had been, in the throes of gambling addiction. And so they they prayed with me for the book, and it’s success. And I’ll never forget that night.
00;10;47;11 – 00;11;08;11
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Yeah. And so Dan and I, you know, we we said, well, let’s get together for coffee after this, right? So we did that a few times. But I have to tell you, Shane and I told Dan, now, you know, I had a book launch party, here in new Jersey. When the book came out, Dan came.
00;11;08;11 – 00;11;33;28
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We invited him. We were so glad. He honored that he came to our this launching of the book party. And I told Dan, I said, you know, I just I was a little fearful of, it brought back for some reason when I heard Dan’s talk, it brought back some of those feelings I had about not knowing what my dad was up to, with his gambling addiction.
00;11;33;29 – 00;12;07;11
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And Dan had such a story that, you know, it it it brought I somehow some deep set of fears. So it took me a while, and and Dan and I didn’t have a lot of contact for several years, but, you know, remain friendly texts this and that and coffees. But then I really when I really got this book in the gear, over the last year, you know, Dan and I talked and he knew and I told him I wanted to write a preface because it did.
00;12;07;11 – 00;12;33;23
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It is talk had such an impact on making me realize that this was important. I needed to get the story out right. Well, and we’re thankful that that all came together for you, because it’s a wonderful story. And I encourage everybody listening to pick up a copy. We’ll share that information at the end and in our show notes, and really explore this.
00;12;33;25 – 00;12;56;29
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It’s it’s a great story and, and it’s one that I think stands alone, or can stand alone, as a really good story and one that I think everybody will connect with on some level. Because there’s, there’s multiple threads that go through this book, in terms of, you know, what you take away from the story.
00;12;56;29 – 00;13;26;13
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I mean, the central theme, of course, is reconciliation with the father, but that also has multiple meanings throughout this book. And, and anybody who dives into it, I think will quickly understand that. So at a high level, I want to explore the book a little bit more for the listener here, and I’m wondering if you can share the story arc and then kind of, yeah, I’d like to go through and explore some of the main characters as presented in the book as well.
00;13;26;16 – 00;13;57;18
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So, how about the story arc from your perspective? What is this arc about? Oh, wow, you’re getting deep shade. Yeah. Let’s dive right in. I love it. Well, the you know, the story, really, it begins with, a scene from Chris’s childhood with her father, a hopeful scene, but kind of a shadowing scene of what’s to come.
00;13;57;20 – 00;14;33;06
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But then we quickly dive in and to the fact that, like I say, Chris, this character, runs a behavioral health hospital, and she gets a call from her estranged father that he’s coming back to town. And, and this is after a significant amount of years being absent. Yes. This is at 25 years later, after this first little scene in the book of her being young, 25 years later, her father is going to show up on the scene.
00;14;33;13 – 00;15;02;21
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Now, Chris has a pretty, pretty well together. She’s she’s, she’s achieved in her life. She runs a hospital. She’s the straight, you know, shooter. She likes things tied up and neat. So this this is a mess for her. That her 25 year absent father comes to town. And he he has an addiction that she doesn’t actually treat her hospital, but she thinks she has tools to deal with that.
00;15;02;23 – 00;15;37;11
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Right. And at the same time, there’s a very, I call him hot chaplain that comes to work there. And, he’s working there, and he’s very unconventional. He doesn’t do things, you know, he has car races on on the scene and everything. And, in his parking lot, sometimes he does crazy things, but he he’s there, and, she needs his help a little bit to to work with this dad coming into town so that that kind of sets up the scene.
00;15;37;14 – 00;16;09;18
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And, you know, you quickly realize that this we we we can’t always make people do what we want them to do, right? That’s the and that’s what we find in this in the story is that people may be in addiction or who are in a place of pain, don’t act the way we want them to, and sometimes we have to, rely on a lot of other measures to, to come to grips with them.
00;16;09;20 – 00;16;44;15
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Sure. Well, so when I I’m going to interject a little bit here too, because you when you’re dealing with and this is, I probably inserted some of my own thinking into the story as I’m reading, as I think people often will do, they kind of set themselves in a similar scenario. Right? If you if you kind of try to approach it with empathy, you’re going to put insert yourself into that situation and fill in some gaps.
00;16;44;15 – 00;17;09;01
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Right? So I was I was definitely guilty of that in reading the story. But my thinking here is that with the 25 year gap and you mentioned that, Chris, the main character’s got this all buttoned up, or at least her life is all buttoned up, and she really has things in her own way, the way she wants them.
00;17;09;01 – 00;17;37;26
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Right. Very nice. Right? Tidy. So this is just this is an inconvenience on some level. But at the same time, there is a desire to get some answers right and to fill in the gaps from the past 25 years. And it creates, a lot of anxiety. And as a reader of this, I can I can understand that.
00;17;37;26 – 00;18;03;15
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I think we all have things in our lives that were left unspoken or left unsaid. Years ago, that it’s very hard to go back and resolve. But if you’re confronted with the opportunity to resolve it, it’s it’s going to create some chaos in your current life. So, I thought that was kind of an interesting theme and underlying theme that ran through the book as well.
00;18;03;16 – 00;18;26;23
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But you had to I think he had to kind of reach for that one a little bit more. But I definitely I could see that thread there for, Chris, the main character, and how she goes about resolving that. Rely ING on others that are currently in her life, in particular the chaplain that you mentioned, the rather good looking chap, one.
00;18;26;25 – 00;18;55;11
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Yes, yes. And, you know, I’m so glad that you identified with some of the characters. That’s what fiction is all about. You know, you read something and it may not be. And for instance, like Jim, this character, this, in a gambling addiction, it could be, as some I’ve had other people read this story and say, you know, it doesn’t necessarily have to be gambling addiction could be to something else that’s created this estrangement or created this tension.
00;18;55;11 – 00;19;17;02
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But you’re right. That’s exactly what we want as readers, because you can then grapple with the problem and kind of, you know, if you read something, it it it speaks to your heart. And this is what this is all about is a heart problem. You know, it’s a it’s a heart problem that manifests itself in a gambling addiction.
00;19;17;02 – 00;19;50;06
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It’s a heart problem that manifests itself in alcoholism or some other addiction. And that heart problem is where, you know, you’re trying to get the connection with someone. So I, I’m, I’m so glad you identify with the characters. And it it thrills me. And I hope others will, too, and that they’ll see, you know. So now, you know, this whole setup in the story because you originally asked me about the arc.
00;19;50;06 – 00;20;22;21
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I mean, you know, not giving too much away, but this is one thing now we know that we have a father that’s in the throes of gambling addiction that really needs to be solved in some way. And then you have Chris, who really feels that the tools that she has earned, the tools that she has worked so hard to obtain without a father in her life, those are the tools that’s going to get her to solve this problem.
00;20;22;24 – 00;20;58;11
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And when you really get to the arc of things, she begins to realize that maybe that’s not so, that she may not have the physical tools to get this solved, but she’s going to have to start relying upon some heart tools. Right? Some faith tools that Shep shows her how to use. But it’s, you know, Shep comes from some background of, of hurt himself.
00;20;58;11 – 00;21;27;12
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So, you know, you know, he’s not just, somebody that went to seminary and shows up. He he’s lived a life himself. So together, they it’s it’s kind of like I always say it’s like a triangle. This story, you’ve got Shep, you have Chris, and you have Jim, and they this is, interesting triangle of how they have to go about this problem.
00;21;27;12 – 00;22;07;18
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Yeah, well, we haven’t talked about Shep much, but his character, I think, is really the glue underneath this entire story. But it doesn’t hit you, right out of the gate. It takes a while before you really start to realize what Shep symbolizes, and I don’t want to give that away. But not only what he symbolizes, but the ways in which he weaves his own perspective into the story as a means of healing and healing for both of the other characters, that we’ve mentioned here, Jim, both Jim and Chris.
00;22;07;26 – 00;22;38;25
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So, it’s very interesting. It’s well done from that perspective. And I applaud that because it’s what makes the story, at least in my opinion. Very interesting. Now, the settings for, the book in the story are also a big part of this in terms of, painting the the picture of this, this story and the journey that takes place and, and all of that.
00;22;38;27 – 00;23;01;10
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Talk to me a little bit or share with us a little bit about the settings and how you came up with that. I suspect some of it’s based on personal life. There’s, there’s a little bit of, that that comes through, but I think there’s also a little bit more to it in terms of the, the journey that needs to take place and things like that.
00;23;01;12 – 00;23;27;00
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Yes. You know, it’s it’s set in new Jersey, at a behavioral health hospital. But I would like to say that that is more the place setting. If you think about your you have a home and you live in your home, but is that where you experience the world? Not really. It’s when you go out, you experience the world.
00;23;27;02 – 00;23;58;21
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And that’s kind of how I like to how I wanted to set this is that this place setting is there. But I love travel. I love to travel. I love to see new places. And you know, my home state, new Jersey, has a lot of great places. You know, so there’s the the character Jim comes to new Jersey, but he ends up going to different places.
00;23;58;21 – 00;24;29;06
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And which leads Chip and Chris on this journey. And so I enjoy, you know, I am originally born in Idaho, and a lot of this story was in my, I guess, my DNA somewhere, you know, it it just the mountains, the beauty of it. And, you know, while I was writing this story, I had sent out for maps from the park services.
00;24;29;06 – 00;25;01;08
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So they were all over my study floor, all these maps. And, you know, I did a lot of YouTube studies. And, you know, people have great drones on lakes and, mountainous, beautiful places. I did a lot with YouTube landings from, pilots landing on these small grass airstrips. And I, I enjoyed it thoroughly is like, well, I get to go and I’m not going, you know.
00;25;01;08 – 00;25;23;05
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But it was great. And I actually called up a park ranger at one point and I asked her I wanted to know the logistics of getting to point A to point B, and she said, well, you know, normally people drive a car and then hiking and I’m like, oh, okay. That’s right. You know, because sometimes when you’re looking at a map, you just can’t until you’re there or you’re talking to someone.
00;25;23;05 – 00;25;44;01
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So I had great fun doing that part of it. Some Idaho scenes, you know, near Stanley, they run, the sheep run through the town. And, you know, it just. I had a lot of fun. So. Yes, I like to go places in in the story, and, and I hope everyone else will enjoy that while I read it.
00;25;44;01 – 00;26;11;13
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Yeah, well, it was it made the story even more interesting. I think, especially, especially the cross-country journey, and and what it took to get there. I think it was it was great. Like I said, I really enjoyed it. So let’s go a little bit deeper, though. Motivation and writing the story. What are some of the the challenges that you went through and and developing this story?
00;26;11;15 – 00;26;39;23
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Well, there were many I mean, you know, there are times I I’d print something out and throw across the room. Oh, I know that’s terrible. A terrible, you know, I’d say to myself, but, you know, you you do you, you surround yourself with other writers. I’m, I’m on the board of, American Christian fiction writing group and, on the founding board of the northeast chapter.
00;26;39;23 – 00;27;05;07
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There’s not a lot of us up here in the North. Some of the chapters are larger, but that’s been great. You know, just to be around other writers that are working on their manuscripts and reading them and testing them out. I joined my public library, reading group, and while there were some characters in there that was fun early on, you know, they were they were reading all kinds of stuff.
00;27;05;09 – 00;27;34;16
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And, so it, you know, it just gives you a flavor. I love writers, they, they, they’re thinking they’re trying to make sense of what this world is all about. And, so I, I see the written word and, and we’ve got a joke around my house. You know, like, if I were traveling down the road and we’re looking at a restaurant and I name that restaurant, but I can, I can mispronounce it like crazy.
00;27;34;16 – 00;27;52;18
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I mean, easy, easy. And so it’s a big joke. The mom said it this way. Mom said it. That was so funny. I said, well, that’s why I write because I’m going to type it out. And if I see this really glaring mistake, I’ll go back to the research and correct it. But I can’t always do that when I’m speaking.
00;27;52;21 – 00;28;17;19
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So I can mispronounce things so that that was always, you know, but that’s why you you get great editors. You know, I had at some point I realized, hey, I need a developmental editor to really look at this and tell me, what I need to kind of work on. And she did that, and I turned that around in a, like, three weeks time, and she’s like, Bravo, this is great.
00;28;17;19 – 00;28;52;06
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You fixed what I was talking about. And, so that meant that was thrilling for me to finally start seeing my manuscript take place to, you know, take form and shape. Right. More than just all these different chapters, I kind of was bringing it together and that was really a crucial step for me. And then I, you know, what got on into the to the line editing and, and you just need others to come along with you to, to get to, a place where the reader can totally understand it.
00;28;52;11 – 00;29;19;02
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Right. All right. So, is this the last effort? Where are you planning another effort? Oh, I love that. I love that question because I, you know, it took all all the strength I had to get this one out. But but I’m a pro. Right, right. I’m a pro. Well, I do have two other ideas for Shep.
00;29;19;04 – 00;29;46;05
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And and, Chris to continue in their story. And so I think it would be two more books, possibly. And it would make a three volume series, I will see. I mean, I do have these ideas. They’re stirring, but right now I’m just so excited to have Shep on the King of Hearts out and out, talking to people like yourself about it.
00;29;46;05 – 00;30;11;03
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And so we’ll see what happens. All right, that sounds good, but, yeah, I’m glad you brought that up, because it it, it brings me to I want to explore a little bit of the symbolism that I think was used throughout the book here and, and Shep’s character in particular, I think, has has a at least my interpretation of it.
00;30;11;05 – 00;30;48;12
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And I think everybody’s probably going to interpret it a little bit differently. But, I viewed that particular character as having a, a massive amount of symbolism attached to not only his defined role in the book, but the life situations that he found himself in, and then his current role, as chaplain at the the chapel that exists on the grounds for the behavioral health hospital there.
00;30;48;13 – 00;31;23;17
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So tell us a little bit more about that. Because it sounds like if I had to go back or if I had, I would say even though he’s not the main focus character, I would almost put it Shep as the main character and the the glue that holds this story together, even though even though he doesn’t take up a whole lot of paragraphs base in the book as compared to Jim and Chris, that that’s true, because Jim and Chris are trying to grapple with this, you know, relationship.
00;31;23;19 – 00;31;57;18
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That’s been so severed. But Shep is, he’s a great guy. You know, I love him. He’s, he comes in right at the right time. And he also has a way of relating to people where they are. No matter what. And I would say this, if you don’t mind me interjecting. You said he comes in at the right time, and I interpreted your comment to mean the right time for others.
00;31;57;21 – 00;32;22;28
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But I think he also shows up at the right time for Shep to. You mean for himself or himself? Yeah. Oh, okay. That’s good. Yeah. Yes. I mean, he’s, you know, he’s a human being. He needs to be loved as well. And he’s he is lacking, you know, is. Well, I hate to give an all away, but his his wife has died.
00;32;23;00 – 00;32;53;10
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So he has gone through some heartache and not only other things. You know, he did some jail time, so it he’s a complex character, and he, too, needs to be loved. But he knows how to give love. And he knows where people are through the heart because he’s experienced, hurt himself. So he’s not, are there again where Chris may be very tied up.
00;32;53;10 – 00;33;24;02
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Neat. Has it all together. Shep is the opposite. He’s lived life. He’s been in the mess of a lot of different situations and around a lot of different people. This doesn’t bother him. He doesn’t. It doesn’t make him nervous. He is totally at home being in other people’s messes. And so if you if you ask me a little bit about symbolism, I would say that, you know, I’m a woman of faith.
00;33;24;04 – 00;34;02;26
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I come to things from a faith angle. And so this is what, you know, God does for us. He comes where we are, in the mess we’re in and helps us get out, and get to a better place. Because I don’t think, you know, as as, I was thinking this morning about, you know, people just sitting at slot machines and hearing that empty clink every time it goes down, or thinking that when they get their coffee, they must get the, you know, scratch off tickets.
00;34;02;26 – 00;34;38;13
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And this is emptiness to me. But God doesn’t want that. He wants a more fulfilled life, a more life that he can touch hearts with. And, be there so we can have our best life. And so that’s what Shep wants. That’s what he wants for not only himself, but he’s willing to put himself to the side just a little bit to deal with Chris and Jim because he sees their heartache.
00;34;38;16 – 00;35;09;21
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So he’s very selfless in that manner. Now, later, a little bit more develops, maybe with me and Chris, you know. Right. But, he doesn’t go into it. Exactly. And that’s only after everything else has been resolved. The man, the, you know, the main thrust of the story, all of that has been resolved and there between Chris and Jim and their feelings and all of that, at that point.
00;35;09;21 – 00;35;35;16
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So to me, it it was an appropriate point where that all took place and came to fruition. It didn’t detract at all from the main purpose of the the story. Well, does that make sense? Yes it does. And, you know, you you want a little fun in there a little bit. You know, we’re all human. You know, it’s this is it’s it’s fun.
00;35;35;19 – 00;36;03;01
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And sometimes some of these subjects are very heavy. And, you know, I, I listen to some of your podcasts and what’s wonderful professionals, who are out there doing the good work, to try to help people in these situations. But I do think sometimes if we can look at it from a lighter perspective, it helps us deal with the heavy stuff.
00;36;03;07 – 00;36;29;27
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So that’s what I’ve wanted to create in this story. A little bit of fun, a little bit, you know, a little bit of light romance, but. And it doesn’t without us giving away the end. It doesn’t actually probably end the way one might think. So, you know. Yeah, for. I enjoyed the little detour, there at the, at the end, too.
00;36;30;03 – 00;37;00;15
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That makes you think. Yeah, maybe that’s just in. Yeah, but I’m not going to give that away. I think that was that was a, an interesting twist at the end. So I, I also on the theme of symbolism, I took away from the book that the chapel itself had a big component or a big part of, symbolic meaning throughout the book as well.
00;37;00;18 – 00;37;24;15
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Did I, did I read that correctly? Oh, yes. You did you get an A today? You get an A in the way. You read this because I think you really hit on some of the things that I did want to, to highlight. And the chapel is a neat place. And I’ve got a little vignette. I haven’t shared it on my Facebook.
00;37;24;15 – 00;37;52;20
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I, my Facebook author page. Yeah, but it’s over this chapel, the one I wrote about is actually a real chapel that’s over in Bucks County, Pennsylvania. Really? Okay. It is gorgeous. It’s a tiny little stone chapel, and it has the red door and the pews. There’s not very many in there. But it’s it’s the sweetest little chapel.
00;37;52;22 – 00;38;24;14
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And so that’s what I wrote about, and, you know, in many institutions of, of hospitals or behavioral hospitals, they may have a chapel, but it’s usually in the center of the hospital, whatnot. Okay. But I wanted to create this again, a little bit of fun, this beautiful chapel on these grounds that just so happened to later, as in the story, the hospital acquired the land around it.
00;38;24;17 – 00;38;48;29
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And so they use the chapel as their chapel, but it really Shep runs this Chapel Cove and like an island, almost okay with the hospital around so that therefore he can kind of do what he wants in a way he, you know, is not just in the center of the hospital. He’s got this beautiful chapel right around the grounds, on the grounds.
00;38;48;29 – 00;39;17;02
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And so, yes, when you, you know, I open a scene where you enter into the chapel and he brings Jim in and and Jim’s really if I could describe I think is a little nervous being in that chapel. You know, some people that have been away from church for a long time or never have been to church, you know, they, they think it’s, you know, they get a little nervous going inside a church.
00;39;17;05 – 00;39;49;11
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But when Jim enters in this scene and in this chapel, he sees on the pews, you know, where people have carved, you know, words in their different patients had been in there. And he can tell that it’s a different kind of a place. And the the cut glass around the front was a project that Shep had worked with his younger patients to kind of fix and restore this glass window that was behind the cross in the front.
00;39;49;13 – 00;40;11;25
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And so it’s it’s sets the scene for just a warm type of inviting in chapel. His ship’s office is to the side. And of course, his dog Ryker goes in there and there’s a fireplace and, you know, they warm up and have a cup of tea. Isn’t that the kind of place you’d like to go to church?
00;40;11;26 – 00;40;49;14
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Just. Absolutely. Yeah. No. It was. I really, I really gravitated towards that. In the story. So, I appreciate the effort that went behind kind of developing the chapel as its own character. Within the book. So. Or within the story. Now you did. You mentioned Ryker and and Ryker saw my list here because what what was it that what was Ryker’s role in this is almost, Robin to shep’s that man, in some regards.
00;40;49;21 – 00;41;12;29
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But, you know what? What was it that you had in mind? Because I know there’s a purpose there for Ryker. Well, I, I love animals, you know, and I, I had a wonderful dog that she’s gone now, but I had her 15.5 years of Cavalier King Charles spaniel. Okay. And, she she helped me get this book done, for sure.
00;41;13;02 – 00;41;41;22
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And she was usually laying right here by my side. So I love animals. And I just felt like Shep needed that. He just needed a sidekick. And, you know, I named the dog Ryker, which, you know, Rikers Island has its own set of lots of stories. And as you know, I wanted to symbolize that as well.
00;41;41;24 – 00;42;05;23
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But he’s he’s always there with Shep, but he’s not, you know, like he had. He just go have dogs are, you know, they’re there when you need them. They’re there to. And he is a way, I love I think one of the things I’d like to do and the next years is we, you know, like, have a therapy dog and go into hospitals.
00;42;05;23 – 00;42;37;26
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Like, I love that. I love watching, Instagram stories about that kind of stuff, you know, and the people respond to these animals, and I just think it’s beautiful. And so Jim, my character, that’s a gambling dad, he’s he responds a little bit to Ryker. I don’t know if he knows that I did. It softens the blows a little bit of just the rawness of how it is and, you know, he goes on these adventures with Shep.
00;42;37;28 – 00;42;58;29
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And Shep needs him. You know, he is. He’s there for him and vice versa. So, you know, and as I, you know, you talk to your animals, right? Yeah. You talk to them and they understand you, and so does Shep. He does. That was Ryker. Ryker understands, but he’s always ready for food, you know, always ready for, like all dogs.
00;42;58;29 – 00;43;24;02
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Yeah. So it was fun. It was fun again. And he’s, a little bit about, you know, he’s a, herding dog, a herding dog. And so, you know, a lot that goes along a little bit with sheep. Shep, he’s a shepherd, you know? So you know, I had fun with all that. Yeah. That’s great.
00;43;24;04 – 00;44;01;21
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Well, thanks for indulging me on those those questions. My my desire to seek my own answers, after reading the book said thank you. So at the end of this book, you have a discussion guide that you’ve included. And I suspect this is, well, my theory is, I guess, that these questions, can be utilized in a group setting where people, may have, who may be in treatment, for example, or people who’ve gotten together to read the book, can explore together.
00;44;01;28 – 00;44;28;18
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Out of those questions, are there is there a question that exists in there that is something that resonates with you and something that you would be willing to share, at least briefly? In terms of, you know what, you hope people walk away from this story. Oh, yeah. And, you know, to be honest with with you as an author, discussion questions are somewhat hard to come up with.
00;44;28;20 – 00;44;55;07
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You’re so close to the story that you know you want to get discussion going. But I think they’re very helpful for book clubs and for people that are, wanting to discuss the story at a deeper level. My my hope with this story is not only it’s fiction, but it’s deep. It’s deeper. And you can draw deep wells of from the different chapters.
00;44;55;09 – 00;45;18;11
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So I tried to kind of go a little bit chapter by chapter, to create these questions. I guess the very last question would be probably the crux of it to me. And it says in the poem, Chris leaves in the book of Hope, what has Chris discovered? How has this changed her perspective on herself and her father?
00;45;18;11 – 00;45;51;25
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Jim, have you found that God can heal and bless you even through a troublesome relationship? So, you know, I guess if you’re asking that the one of the biggest takeaways on that would be, you know, in the story, there’s, in the chapel, there’s a book of hope, that has been it’s a beautiful book. It’s wooden and it’s been carved by, one of the maintenance guys that works at the hospital.
00;45;51;25 – 00;46;27;02
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He does woodworking, and he’s created this beautiful book. And what it’s for is for patients to come and leave their stories in and to bring hope for other people. And so at the at a toward the end of this book, Chris leaves her own story in that book, and that is probably one of the main things I would love for readers to, to, to see how you can go through trouble in your life.
00;46;27;03 – 00;46;53;16
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You can grow, go through troublesome relationships, but how you can come out on the other side, no matter how deep you may be in a situation or loved ones you have are in a situation, there is hope on the other side and you can get there, right? And, you know, ship, you know, ship shows Chris this. Chris has to learn.
00;46;53;18 – 00;47;20;23
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She thinks she’s got it all. She knows everything. But actually, no, she needs to learn a little bit about this. And so she comes to the other side of knowing that God has been there for her and works through her brokenness and her heartache, and he can do that for every character in the story, not just the one that’s dealing with the addiction, but the others that are affected as well.
00;47;20;26 – 00;47;50;09
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Sure. How cathartic was this book for you? It it it was cathartic. I guess it was. I felt that I had worked through the pain of what happened in my own life with my, father that was estranged from for for 40 years deep in the gambling addiction. I had worked through that. I’ve had a beautiful life. I have wonderful, two wonderful kids, a wonderful husband.
00;47;50;11 – 00;48;12;21
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I could have just kept going and not visited this story. That was part of my past. Okay, but you know what, Shane? At the end of the day, when you take your last breath, do you want people to know your pain and sufferings so that they can go through it as well and get to the other side?
00;48;12;23 – 00;48;44;16
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The answer is yes. Sure. You know, even if it causes you a little bit of I mean, this was work. Sure that to bring the story to life. Right? I’m sure a bit of discomfort and, a lot of levels. Oh, it is, you know, I, I tell the story like you’re sitting at a, you know, I recently, not too long ago went over to some friends for dinner and, you know, the couples are sitting around talking and something comes up about their background, like their father did this or their mother did that.
00;48;44;16 – 00;49;07;07
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And, you know, it just it still hits you in the middle of the heart. Well, I didn’t have a dad around, you know that. That’s my. But you’re sitting there in your, you know, form or your, your life, and they don’t see that pain because they don’t even it’s long ago. So I think there’s many of us that walk around like that.
00;49;07;10 – 00;49;39;13
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You know, we have this, this pain in our backgrounds, but we don’t often show it. So you know it when you say, is that cathartic? I guess it is. I think it’s something that actually God wanted me to do to bring this story out, to show others that there is a way through the pain and that let’s not numb ourself with just all the trappings of the world, of all the gambling and everything that can go on.
00;49;39;16 – 00;50;07;03
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Let’s get down to the heart of of who we really are. And you know what an abundant life we can have if we’re there for each other. So that’s what I’m trying to do with this story. Yeah, well, I, I job well done, I appreciate it. And, I love the story. And before we break up here and, you know, maybe look ahead to, another time down the road when we come back and reconvene.
00;50;07;05 – 00;50;34;02
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Are there any additional thoughts or topics about the book that you would like to make sure you have a chance to talk about before we conclude? Well, thank you. I you know, it’s, again, I can’t say enough about just fiction touching hearts. It’s a way a vehicle that I think is somewhat lost in our world today.
00;50;34;09 – 00;51;05;07
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We’re so, you know, we want to watch that Instagram story or that TikTok video about what somebody just did with their dog or whatever. But if we can take time to read, and really grapple with some of the heart issues that are really out there, and to really know that, God loves us and he loves us to the point of our in our pain.
00;51;05;09 – 00;51;34;02
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And he can do that through fiction. And I, I’m excited that I’ve gotten this opportunity to be able to bring it to life. And a fictional story. So I think I want to let the readers read and and let them be the judges. I’ve gotten some wonderful feedback so far, and, I just hope that this book will, touch, touch hearts and.
00;51;34;05 – 00;51;55;28
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Let’s say, you know. All right, well, Stacey, thank you very much. The name of the book again is Shep and the King of Hearts. Stacy, thank you so much for sharing your story, not only with the world, but also with us today on wage or danger. We’ll have a link to order the book from Amazon in the show notes below.
00;51;56;00 – 00;52;19;15
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All right. Thanks again, Stacey. We’ll say thank you. And thank you for having me and all the great work that Gateway Foundation is doing and that you do every day putting all these stories out. For listeners, I really appreciate being a guest today. Loved having you. We love hearing from you. So please take a moment to like, share and comment on our podcast.
00;52;19;22 – 00;52;48;23
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You can reach out to us directly via email at Wager Danger at Gateway foundation.org. Look for us on Facebook and Twitter, at Recovered Gateway, on LinkedIn at gateway Dash Foundation, or through our website at gateway foundation.org. Wager danger is supported through funding, in whole or in part through a grant from the Illinois Department of Human Services and the Division of Substance to Use Prevention and Recovery.
00;52;48;26 – 00;53;04;25
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And remember, recovery is a lifelong process. If you are a family member is struggling with a gambling problem. Call gateway at (844) 975-3663 and speak with one of our counselors for a confidential assessment.
