- April 12, 2022
- Gambling
What are the unique risk factors that parents, teachers and family members can recognize when interacting with teens and young adults? Our panel of experts discusses and offer solutions that assist in limiting or preventing gaming and gambling harm to a vulnerable demographic.
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Transcript:
WAGER DANGER EPISODE 1: YOUTH, ADOLESCENT AND YOUNG ADULTS – GAMING TO GAMBLING
Host: Shane Cook
Welcome to Wager Danger, a podcast where we explore topics related to problem gambling and its potential harm to the individuals involved. I’m your host, Shane Cook, gambling Disorder Program Director at Gateway Foundation, a national nonprofit that provides substance use and gambling disorder treatment, with 16 centers located throughout the state of Illinois. On this episode, we’ll cover a number of topics focused primarily on gaming and gambling in our youth, adolescent and young adult populations. We’ll explore the effects of technology and overexposure to gaming and gambling identifiers to look for to determine if your child is struggling with emotional distress related to gaming device proliferation and its impact on our younger population. And last, the need for improved financial literacy related to gaming and gambling. Joining me as co-host today is Chris Ward.
Chris is the Grant and Outreach Director at The Way Back In, an addiction treatment center that serves individuals who are suffering from alcohol, drug, or gambling dependence. Welcome, Chris. Hey, Shay. Yeah, good to have you.
Host: Chris Ward
Thank you. Welcome. Also a warm hello to our listeners. We’re super excited to be here to discuss such pertinent information for all the families out there who may not know just how gaming and gambling can really affect our youth. And I just want to add about way back in that we have a very robust, long-term residential and virtual outpatient program for anyone who is struggling with gambling or their family members or loved ones who may not know where to turn when their loved one is struggling. And with that virtual option, we’ve actually been able to service people all over the state of Illinois as well so that they have access to gambling treatment.
Host: Shane Cook
Yeah, it’s perfect. We’re glad to have you, Chris. And we’ve got a panel of experts here that are going to help facilitate this roundtable discussion that we’re going to have. And we’re focused today on gaming and gambling effects on youth, adolescent, and young adult populations. I think this is a timely topic for us, Chris. It’s one that certainly when you think about the month of March, you think of March Madness. It’s one of the single largest betting events on the calendar year, and it is also recognized as Problem Gambling Awareness Month. So those two things combined make this a very timely topic for us.
Host: Chris Ward
I completely agree, and I think everyone’s been seeing all the commercials for March Madness and all the different betting apps. So I feel like with such an almost bombardment, people kind of really need to know what’s going on.
Host: Shane Cook
Right. The urgency for this topic has become palpable. We are in an environment now, at least here in the state of Illinois, where online sports betting is now legalized. It’s been legal for a year, and last year alone, wagering topped $7 billion in the state. Nationally, we’re somewhere in the neighborhood of 52 billion. But when you look at how it’s affected the citizens in our state at $7 billion. It’s mind-boggling.
Host: Chris Ward
It really is mind-boggling. And I think even though it’s the first year that’s legalized in 2021, they kind of were seeping into the market beforehand before they even had legislators and all the kind of different rules and guidelines for the app. So people were still using them illegally, but technically, legally because there wasn’t rules around it.
Host: Shane Cook
Right, right, indeed. So with the legalization, the access is much greater, I anticipate, and I believe projections show that this next year has the potential to be even more impactful when it comes to wagering on sports gambling. And one of the things that has contributed to that is that Illinois has now done away with the registration in person to access sports gambling. In other words, you’re allowed to register yourself remotely through the app and gain access to these online sports books.
Host: Chris Ward
I think that’s what’s so almost dangerous and compelling when it comes to youth because they have that ubiquitous and almost universal unlimited access and it’s really hard to monitor and to regulate what age people are when they are downloading these apps and able to start to be wagering and actually using real life money.
Host: Shane Cook
Yeah, we’re going to get to that topic a little bit later. I have some personal experience on that one that I want to share and how it just, it’s mind-blowing to me for that. But this is going to be an exciting topic, chris and I’m really excited with the group of leaders that we have brought together here today to explore the unique risks associated with gambling for our younger population. Joining us on the panel discussion today are Anita Pandur, the Executive Director at The Way Back In, Dr. Teresa Garate, senior Vice President of Partnerships and Engagement at Gateway Foundation, and Carolyn Weisman, Associate Director of Adolescent PHP at Compass Health Center. Let’s take a quick moment in order here. Anita, why don’t you talk a little bit about The Way Back in your role there and why this topic is so important.
Guest: Dr. Teresa Garate
Thank you. So I am the executive director at The Way Back In. And Way Back In is a treatment facility here in the western suburbs. But we treat all of Illinois. And as Chris pointed out, currently we are able to provide virtual therapy for gambling use disorders and we have been part of the gambling use disorder treatment since the inception with a pilot project by the state of Illinois in 1999 2000. So The Way Back and a few other agencies in Illinois has been doing this for a very long time and we have seen the progression of both gambling use disorders, the legalization of gambling, and the changes we’re seeing with youth. So I started here as a therapist and I’ve been doing gambling use disorder treatment since about 2004.
So it’s really exciting to see Illinois stepping up and on The Way Back.
Host: Shane Cook
End progressing right how about the Gateway Foundation? Teresa?
Guest: Dr. Teresa Garate
Yeah. Thank you for inviting me to speak today. I am, as Shane mentioned, I’m part of the leadership at Gateway Foundation and we’ve been around for 53 years, but we’re actually a newer provider to the gambling disorder program. We became a provider during COVID actually, I think as a result of the state seeing that there was an increased need. Today’s topic, which is our first podcast, focuses on youth. And so for me, that’s very near and dear to my heart. While I’m at Gateway and have been in the healthcare field for several years now, public health and healthcare, direct health care. My background is education, so I was a teacher many years ago serving children with emotional behavior disorders and learning disabilities. And so our youth, especially those with disabilities, are often susceptible and vulnerable to influences from outside friends, stressors.
So I think it’s really important to bring attention to how gaming, and gambling can easily impact youth, especially at a time when they’re very vulnerable and impressionable. So thank you for having me and I look forward to the conversation.
Host: Shane Cook
Yeah, absolutely. And Carolyn?
Guest: Carolyn Weissman
Yes.
Guest: Anita Pindiur
Hi.
Guest: Carolyn Weissman
Thank you so much for having me. Compass has been around for a little over ten years. Compass is a PHP and IOP program focused on the short-term stabilization of emotional disorders for children, adolescents, and adults. We have a handful of different programs that support people in different ways, but for adolescents, that’s the team that I work on. I’ve been here for about six years, and the increase of teens using electronics has been pretty stark, especially with remote learning and smartphones getting smarter, different apps and different limits. Parents knowing about them, not knowing about them, it’s been pretty intense. So I think this is a pretty important topic to talk about. I think that it can be really great to raise awareness about this just so we can get the conversation started before it gets to the point where we’re responding to it.
Before it gets there.
Host: Shane Cook
Yeah, definitely. And Chris, I knew this was going to be a good panel to put together, bring together to discuss this topic.
Host: Chris Ward
Absolutely. They have such vast different backgrounds and I think pulling it all together will really help give the audience a really big honing in on kind of how gambling and gaming really is affecting our world and all of our youth.
Host: Shane Cook
Let’s jump right in. And I’m going to start with you, Anita. There’s a very real express concern on behalf of treatment providers that the general public has become desensitized to the potential harm that can result from overexposure both gaming and gambling. What are your thoughts and experiences on this?
Guest: Anita Pindiur
Well, thank you. That is an interesting question because we are so oversensitized as technology has become such a big part of our lives. And then we look at the last two years and we’re looking at COVID and the fact that without technology, I don’t know what we would have done. The reason why were able to continue schooling, therapy, so many other services was because we had access to technology. But during that time, we also made that kind of our help lifeline, right? So when we look at youth and we look at schools, many schools converted to online learning. So they spend their whole entire days only learning online. And because of the dangers and because we didn’t know so much about COVID we really isolated and kept kids away from each other.
And so the way that they communicate and the way they shared and the way they stayed in contact was through technology. My son is, like, 14, and during COVID they spend an enormous amount of time playing online games and playing together. I think the real issue that we’re looking at here is that mirroring of the technology with the gambling aspect. And when we bring in money and then the aspect of winning something, we really are changing the way our brains see and the way we feel about it. And we’re starting to do it at such a younger and younger age, and that is the concern we all should have. So this isn’t like a scare tactic, like, oh, my God, don’t let your kids use the Internet or don’t let them play video games. It’s just, what are we doing about it?
What other activities are we providing? What other aspects are we letting them do? How easy is it to get them off? Right. When you ask your child to get off, do they or are they in their dark room seven days a week, not really ever leaving? And that desensitization of we had other real fears, and there were real fears during COVID So now that we’re stepping away from that, how are we balancing social life with the Internet, with gaming, with gambling, and then educating our youth on the dangers of having those two together, of gaming and gambling, and then seeing a distinction?
Host: Shane Cook
Right? So, in other words, during the past couple of years, we’ve essentially pushed our younger population to engage more with technology than with each other. I’d be curious to hear from both you, Carolyn, and then Teresa on this topic as well.
Guest: Carolyn Weissman
Yeah, no problem. I agree with everything that Anita said. I think that without technology, we wouldn’t have made school or work during the pandemic. However, I think now we’re kind of on the fence of technology is still like the Wild West. There’s so many different things that kids have access to that parents may not be aware of. And so while parents might be thinking, I know where my kid is, or they’re just in their room, they’re hanging out with their friends like they’re at home, they’re safe, we don’t know what they’re really doing online or on the apps, or if they have access to their credit card or a parent’s credit card.
And just as Anita said, kind of having this discussion and bringing this topic up is not so much of a scare tactic, but really coping ahead and identifying as we’re learning to use technology safely. We want to make sure these conversations are happening not only at school but at home, and also helping parents model great behavior of limit setting. Putting the phone away at night, having face-to-face conversations with family. I think Anita touched on too. It did allow us to connect during the pandemic. Also, if we have someone living across the country or across the world, zoom is so fantastic so we can see people. However, it’s still not that face-to-face connection.
And I think teens are really struggling with developing a lot of the nonverbal cues and the social learning because everyone has been so isolated, which also impacts that want for that dopamine surge, right? So the gaming increases, trying to find the treasure, the loop box, whatever it might be, can be that sense of fun or excitement versus going skateboarding with your friends and doing a really cool trick. So I think it’s so important to continue to talk about this, especially with parents too, not just teenagers, right, Theresa?
Guest: Dr. Teresa Garate
So I think both of my colleagues put it so well. I guess what I could add to the conversation is we always share with parents that you should talk to your children about drugs and alcohol and make sure that you’re having those conversations early on and letting them know about responsible use. But we don’t do the same when it comes to gambling, right? We don’t say, oh, by the way, this is also a danger, and there’s a lot of people who can do responsible gambling, right? There’s a balance, but we don’t talk about it the same way. I think about when I was a young parent and everybody said, limit how much TV your child watches, limit how much time they have. We didn’t have iPads then. We had those little Fisher Price things that made noise and whatever it was.
But you were very mindful of limiting those things. Now, as a parent, I had the luxury of being able to do that. Not all parents are informed or are home to be able to limit that. So I think it makes the conversation even more important and just as elevated as talking to your children about other dangers. Our podcast is called Wager Danger. So you teach your children Stranger Danger, right? So you don’t go talk to people who you don’t know. And I think what we are trying to message we’re trying to bring is that gambling is just as dangerous or can be, and that video gaming is not always, but can be a path towards that to irresponsible gambling.
Host: Chris Ward
Curious Teresa, on that kind of similar vein of information, and anyone can really answer this too, how would you recommend parents learn which games are more susceptible to leading their youth down that gambling route. Is there a way to kind of distinguish which games have more of those outside loop boxes where you can actually put money? Which ones have memberships? Do they know which ones their kids are playing until 02:00? A.m., what would you kind of recommend for them?
Guest: Dr. Teresa Garate
So I’m not a gaming expert, but as an educator, I think identifying the games is a good question. What I would say more is if your child is playing a game and they absolutely would rather just play that game than do anything else in the world, then that would be an indication. Right. There are great exercises for our brain development, for learning that are technologically based, that we want our children to engage in. We want them to be savvy in that respect. But there’s a fine line, right? So I would think that as a parent, it’s hard for us to be gaming experts. But if you see your child not walking away from that, then I would then question that and say, what are you playing? Let me see. Let me play with you.
I would say to those parents, so that you’re seeing what your child is doing, or have somebody else play with them, a trusted adult so that you can kind of see what’s happening. I don’t know if that exactly answers your question, Chris.
Host: Chris Ward
I think it does. Because even if it’s not as important or less so important to know exactly what game it is or which games are more dangerous to that degree, just knowing which ones are kind of causing that preoccupation with the game. And which ones if you took it away, if they were grounded, let’s say, and they get so upset, kind of knowing which level of upset that is. Are you upset because you can’t play that game? Or are you upset because you feel like you have to play that game?
Guest: Carolyn Weissman
I think that’s an important thing to remember, Chris, is are you upset because you can’t play the game, you can’t do what you want in that moment, or are you having the urge to play it so badly that it’s causing emotional distress? I think that is such an important thing to look at, not only within teens, but also young adults. I think that when someone is struggling to that extent, it’s hard to see outside that tunnel vision. So having parents, teachers, really anyone interfacing with teenagers or young adults know what those risk factors are, just as it was said before, struggling to step away from that game or spending so much time or money, I think can be really helpful in pressing that pause button.
Guest: Anita Pindiur
Yeah. And obviously much easier, maybe with smaller children, right. Because they’re little, you can physically remove them. It does become much more difficult with teenagers and then with young adults. So having a very grown-up conversation about some of these things, like, let’s set some limits, be a part of this conversation, especially with young adults and teenagers, they get annoying and they’re difficult. And a lot of times we just throw up our hands and say, this is the best we could do. Just let them do whatever they want. And this is really the time to step in and to get involved. But you’re getting involved at a different level as a parent than you are with a five-year-old. With a 15 and a five-year-old. But yeah, Teresa, I’m sorry. They always blame us. I’m sure Carolyn knows this.
They always blame the mom, so it’s always her fault. Let’s get used to it and then just do the best we can.
Guest: Dr. Teresa Garate
I’m okay with being blamed. I’m not your friend, I’m your mom.
Host: Shane Cook
Obviously, this is a huge topic, right? Because as we’ve already established, the gamification of just about everything is happening. And it’s real for kids as they’re growing up, as they move from device to device, different platform to different platform, graduating from Xbox, for example, to handheld device, a phone device that has access to everything. It presents some real challenges, as we’ve discussed, for parents and educators to really know when is the right time to step in and help them. So in terms of that, and just thinking about that in general, are there any other strategies behind just limiting play or limiting access, which seemingly is even harder and harder to do as more and more devices are available? Is there anything else that parents and educators can turn to?
Guest: Carolyn Weissman
I can jump in and kind of talk about this. I think it’s so important because you’re so right, Shane. Technology is literally everywhere. It’s in schools, it’s at home, it’s in your hand. I think helping teens get involved with different activities outside of technology is one of the best ways to continue to increase their connection and also gain that autonomy that teenagers want so badly and kind of master something that’s again, outside of technology. Not a video game, not Instagram or likes or anything like that, but a sport, a club, even. Just like hiking, walking. Anything that doesn’t involve a phone.
I think to Anita’s point earlier, too, it’s much easier to enforce limits when they’re set early on when teenagers know a limit is coming, or the expectations, it’s easier to enforce it as well if the parent is consistent in enforcing that, too. But I do think the earlier we can have these conversations and set expectations around use within the home, within the school, I think the easier it can be to continue with these conversations if there are some concerns in the future.
Host: Shane Cook
Right.
Guest: Dr. Teresa Garate
Go ahead, Anita.
Guest: Anita Pindiur
Oh, thank you. Yeah, I was going to chime in that. Especially with teens and young adults. I think appealing to their intellect is a good idea. Because if I’m just the one saying it’s like you’re always doing this, but pointing out real data, pointing out reality sharing. Maybe articles like the articles we see asking questions, kind of open-ended questions. But why do you think that casinos are this big? Or why do you think they made so much money over last year? When you play in these games, do you always win or do you just sometimes win? Allowing them to understand you don’t have to go into like a master’s level statistics class, but just pointing out certain realities and letting them kind of come to that conclusion often is very helpful as well.
So it isn’t just you against them, it’s you sharing what’s really already out there. Go ahead.
Guest: Dr. Teresa Garate
I think the only thing I would add is maybe trying to figure out what’s missing. Right. Sometimes adults, children, young adults, if something’s missing or something’s not going right, they’re going to try to self-correct, like, okay, I’m not doing well in school, I don’t have any friends, but I’m really good at this game, so that might make me feel good. And so I’m just going to do that because that’s making me feel good. An adult might say, my job is really awful, my boss is going to fire me, and I’ve broken relationships. I’m going to take a note of gin. Right. I’m not saying it’s the same, but figuring out what’s missing. And I think I also should be careful, like, not all gaming is bad. Not all gaming will result in a gambling addiction.
So really our message today is be aware of it. And as a parent, educate yourself about it, just like you would with other dangers. But I think if you know your child best when I was an educator, parents would come in all the time and I would always tell them, we are a bunch of experts, but you know your child best because you’re with them all the time. I do worry about the parents who can’t be with their children all the time and that gap of our communities and social disparities of health. And so I think for those families, it’s even more important that if you’re not there, that you have supports around you, whether it’s the school resources which are there for young children as well as teenagers and even some of our higher ed young adults. Right.
There’s a lot of new attention on mental health in the higher ed space with recent legislation and recent programs. So those partners can be a resource too. You don’t have to do it all alone because it can be overwhelming, especially if you’re not able to be there all the time. And even if you are, it’s still overwhelming.
Host: Chris Ward
That’s a really good point to bring up. Teresa just kind of referencing one of the articles that Anita was talking about. There was one from the UK. And they’re a few years ahead of the United States and legalized online sports wagering, but there was this young man whose parents didn’t know to intervene soon enough, and he ended up ultimately committing suicide because he thought he couldn’t beat that gambling addiction. His parents brought him to all the different bookies sites so that he could sign his name and show a picture saying, please don’t let me bet here. But then he found all of those ins and outs and the webs on the online sports betting apps, so they just had no idea when to intervene.
So I think having those important discussions with school faculty and families and community members because you’re not always sure where your kids are, they’re just so super important. He was cutting school at 17. They may not have known that, and then it just continued to exacerbate. So I really think those discussions will be important.
Host: Shane Cook
Yeah, thanks for bringing that up, Chris. That article and we’ll put a link to that article in our description for this podcast. But that article was heartbreaking, just the amount of pain that family went through. And I would encourage all of our listeners to click that link and go out and take a look at that story. It really was part of the basis for this discussion that we’re having today and really kicked that off. So thanks for bringing that up, Chris. Teresa, you touched on a topic there, and all of you have touched on this topic of loot boxes in gameplay. And as a parent, and my youngest now being 18, about four years ago, there was a game that was being played online called Fortnite.
And I don’t know if any of you remember this, but it was all the rage for kids to be playing. And like a lot of parents, my wife and I have, we have other kids, older kids, and at that time finishing high school, starting college. So we had the split time and our time with each of our kids and where we put our efforts. And the game was an easy place for our son to just kind of recede to and play a game. Now, he’s very athletic. He’s very involved in athletics, so he has a lot of social interaction. But we started to recognize the time he was on that game was intense. And even if it was for 30 minutes or at 45 minutes to an hour, it was very intense for him. Come along.
A couple of weeks later, I start seeing charges that come up on our credit card because it’s associated with the live account for Xbox. And this is nothing against Xbox. It was on multiple platforms. Just happened to be the platform that he was using. And it was at that moment that I had a moment and said, hang on a minute. What’s going on here? Come to find out. They can invest in this game through purchasing loot boxes, and then there’s in-game competitions for skins and so many other things which really mimic the behavior or the scenario for gambling, it’s putting up something of value with the potential to win something of even greater value.
It led me to think about this too, because kids today, I believe, are moving away from cash as a method of transaction, and whether that be through Venmo or PayPal or Apple Pay. And for him, he did not even make the connection that what he was doing was spending money, and it was my money to begin with, and that’s beside the point, but part of the point. But he was unaware that he was spending that money. And it just leads me to believe how well does that or what kind of effect does that have as our kids begin to grow, become adolescent young adults, and we’re out of this cashless system, for them, mentally, they don’t really recognize it as putting up or losing money. Any thoughts on that?
Guest: Dr. Teresa Garate
Yeah, so I think you don’t need a credit card anymore. You just carry your phone, and that’s all you really need as long as you’re linked to an account. So I do think it makes it very easy. But I also think one of the things that’s missing is we’re not very good we as a system, are not very good about teaching financial literacy and what that means. Right. How does a credit card is actually money, and make sure that young adults, especially, understand that as you move out into the world, you’re going to be responsible for XYZ and some children, and some young adults are fortunate to have what they need and some are not. And so I think financial literacy, teaching that and how it’s related to the value of what’s on your phone is real.
I think it’s related to the whole issue of when we started Illinois just made this so easy. It’s every single app, and you just play a game, but at the end of the day, you have to pay. So I think especially for younger audiences that are so impressionable, being very deliberate about having those conversations again, we all revert to our children. My daughter’s 25. She has her own apartment. She moved out a couple of years ago. And she said, school taught me that this stuff. But they didn’t teach me about a rental lease and how they’re going to check my credit and how I’m going to move money from this account to this account. And it was like, oh, that’s my taxes. All of these things that we often take for granted.
And now I remember when were growing up, like, you balanced your checkbook. You make sure your checkbook was balanced because if not, you were going to balance a check. Now it’s just put money on this cash app, spend it when it’s done, and put more money on the cash app if you have it right. And I think that the more we automate gaming and gambling, the more it becomes dangerous to get to that.
Host: Shane Cook
Point. Sure.
Guest: Carolyn Weissman
I think you make so many great points about how easy it is to exchange cash with Venmo or PayPal. Any of those apps are so quick to connect with gaming apps. And I think because teens are moving so quickly because their brains are not developed yet until the age of 25, sometimes the way that they respond to things that they really want in that moment could mimic someone who’s really dependent on a substance or behavior. And I think it’s important to help them slow down and think, wait, maybe spending this much money on this is not a great idea. So I think that’s a fantastic point to even bring in the conversation of finances or responsible spending with apps in general, just to, again, help them gain that autonomy and trust within themselves.
That I can make this informed decision versus just clicking a button and being like, I didn’t really know, because they didn’t have the foresight to really see that impact on them or even their family.
Guest: Anita Pindiur
Financial literacy is very important. And we see this even with our adult patients who come in, this inability to have financial literacy and the ability to balance things. We can come back like, oh, we used to use cash and now we don’t. But money is money. And still the same kind of concept, like, don’t spend more than you have. So Shane is good to know. I feel like it’s dying down, but yes. During the pandemic, my son spent a lot of time playing Fortnite, and so does his friends. And it was the same idea. We set kind of not only time limits, but we set up a lot of limits around money. Even though this is tied up to, whatever, a credit card, you can’t exceed X amount. And then we would talk about the value of this.
If you buy this skin, that’s $10. What else could you do with this $10? You talked about wanting to get, whatever, $100 pair of shoes. So if you don’t buy the skin, then at the end of the year, if you save up each week, you could buy. So setting up these realistic expectations to give them some sort of value behind it. Right. All right. You’re talking about so it doesn’t become so easy, which leads us to a lot of other forms of kind of gaming or gambling, which youth are engaging in. You talk about the Robin Hood and the NFT and all these other forms which are financial and often lead into different areas, but many times they’re unchecked. Many times they’re unregulated.
And it’s very different when we’re investing in our future and saying, well, I’m getting a 401K, but there’s a financial advisor and somebody to lead me through that. I’m like, 23. I just finished my economics degree. I’m going to go in Robin Hood and I’m going to make all this money and share. Last summer, it was that story about a young male here, I believe, in the Illinois area, who did who felt like he owed Robin Hood a very large sum of money and he did commit suicide because he felt there was no way out of it. And so it’s these kind of things that we also need to be teaching. There’s a difference between me going in and me investing my future.
This is a career than me just doing this and then thinking that I’m going to get millions of dollars out at the end of the month or at the end of the week. And financial literacy in all forms to really be taught to children, adolescents, but then also young adults.
Host: Shane Cook
Chris, are there a couple of topics that you want to explore here?
Host: Chris Ward
Yeah, I kind of want to know kind of shifting gears with all of the different lights and sounds that all of these apps, even advertisements, while you’re on the app, they just pop up for all of these different games. How does all of that almost intoxication and instant gratification with all the buzzing and sounds, sort of engage the youth, possibly impacting future addictive behavior in the brain? How does that kind of work?
Guest: Carolyn Weissman
I think that’s a fantastic question and I think that’s something that we can continue to explore. But you’re right. I think with the engagement with online gaming or social media, it’s that kind of fear of missing out. FOMO like, what is better? Is this app that’s popping up or is this new thing that’s popping up better than what I’m doing now? If I click on this, will it get me more likes or is it more fun? I think that especially with teenagers, again, having that quick response and responding to what’s in front of them, then taking the step back to slow down. Instant gratification is so huge is that they don’t have the foresight to say, maybe if I slow down, I can get a bigger reward. Meaning I could win this game that I’m doing now versus what’s this new thing?
I think it is something to definitely talk about with teens, not just for parents, because as Anita said, we have pinned a lot on them as well, but also with schools and with coaches, with anyone that’s really supporting teens, because I think it is just a typical teen to really want that instant gratification. But we have to be kind of vigilant on when is it to the point of distress.
Guest: Dr. Teresa Garate
So I guess what I would add to that, we talk to children and young adults about exercising for health, eating healthy, making sure that you’re aware of your body and all of that. But we don’t say the brain is the most important organ in your body. And this stimulus, this over stimulus of sounds, lights, whatever, really impacts the entire senses, right. Even touch, and feel your emotions. So you’re young and your brain is still developing and now you’re being bombarded with all of the stimulus and what is that doing to your brain? And remember that any type of addiction, whether it’s a process addiction or a substance addiction, is a disease of the brain and it’s how your brain reacts to that stimulus.
So being very aware of that and talking to children about the importance of a healthy brain and mental well-being instead of mental health issues, but just overall well-being, including your brain.
Host: Chris Ward
Curious Teresa on that same vein, or even Anita or Carolyn, if you want to jump in, are youth adolescent brains, while they’re developing, more susceptible to developing problem gambling, sort of like with similar substances?
Guest: Dr. Teresa Garate
I’m not sure if there’s really any research on that yet. So that seems like a fun research project for someone. But if you kind of look at it on the same spectrum, like Theresa saying, of alcohol and substance use disorders, you see that, right? That a lesson. Brain is much quicker at developing an addiction in a shorter amount of time just because it is still developing, probably like anything else, right? When you’re developing, everything’s still growing. And we don’t know enough, really, to know about it, but we know enough that it could cause some type of changes. And so what changes are we actually causing?
Host: Chris Ward
I know for substances, a lot of the high schools and students are kind of like, yeah, they always come in and talk about the brain. I’m wondering how we can talk about it in a way that seems welcoming and understandable to teens and youth in their families. So it’s not that same here’s what’s happening in your brain, but kind of like, I don’t know, making it almost more entertaining and something that they can make it more tangible.
Guest: Carolyn Weissman
I think that teens have so much information thrown at them that they pick and choose what might be important to them in that moment and then they forget the rest. I think that teaching skills or having the information there and helping them understand why it’s important now and what they can do with that information could be so beneficial in really getting them kind of hooked into learning that. I know it seems that some teens really enjoy the science behind it, talking about the brain because there’s so much research to be done still. So it’s kind of a mystery. So I think taking that approach again, looking at it, how it can be focused in the real moment without using the buzzwords like mental health or self-care or the ones that are overused right now.
Guest: Dr. Teresa Garate
I guess the only thing I would add to that is a few years ago and even now, there was a lot of discussion about the elasticity of the brain and how it’s never too late to get over the trauma. And when you look at the brain of somebody who’s been through trauma, and especially now during COVID which for many of us was traumatic for children who couldn’t go to school, for children who were home alone. So maybe focusing on the possibility of it’s not too late to take care of your brain health and overall well-being.
Guest: Carolyn Weissman
Teresa, you bring up a really great topic that I’m not sure if we brought up of just a connection. I know we talked a little bit about connecting through technology, but I think the pandemic, it is traumatizing, especially for teens, because they use school and socialization to help develop their sense of identity. And without that, I think a lot of it has been turned into gaming and social media and kind of using that as a tool to connect, to say, look how many likes I got, or I beat you in this game, or how cool was that fight scene that we did together? So I do think it is so important to also address that piece as well.
Host: Shane Cook
Yeah, well, we’ve kind of come full circle then on our discussion because we started out with that very premise, having ready access to technology. We’ve been pushed into adopting and utilizing technology and the remote learning scenario. So I appreciate how we’ve come full circle on that topic as we close down here this episode. I just like to go around the table here for some final thoughts and closing thoughts from each of you. Let’s start with you, Anita, and we’ll go to Carolyn and then Teresa.
Guest: Anita Pindiur
Well, thank you. This was excellent. And thank you to everybody on being here. And maybe in final thoughts is just talk to the kids, the young adults and the teens in your life. They’re very open, they’re very willing to share. Just give them that time and that space. And it doesn’t have to be like 3 hours of sitting down. It could be when you’re dropping them off or have five-minute conversation, ask them when they’re on the phone. Just say, what are you doing? Who are you talking to? What’s going on? They’re very open, they’re very willing to share. Give them that opportunity to share.
Guest: Carolyn Weissman
Yeah. Thank you so much for having me. I think this topic is so important and I would have to agree with Anita to continue the ongoing discussion of what they’re doing and where they’re spending their time, who they’re spending their time with, and approach it with curiosity. I think that is a non-judgmental way to really open the door to great communication around safety in the Internet or just getting to know your kid a little bit.
Guest: Dr. Teresa Garate
Thanks. So I would say if you are a listener and if you are a parent and you have any doubt whatsoever and you’re saying maybe something’s wrong, follow your gut and figure it out. And if you need help there’s, help out there. Providers like the providers we represent, but also the schools are a great resource. If you are a young adult and you’re listening and you think, maybe I’m spending a little too much time on Fortnite or Call of Duty or I don’t even know what see that’s I’m old.
Host: Shane Cook
They are you’re right there.
Guest: Dr. Teresa Garate
You know, just like if you said, am I drinking too much? Am I going out too much in college? If you have that question, then it’s time for you to pause and look for some help and know that help is out there. Millions of people in the United States suffer from some kind of addiction process. Addiction, substance issues, whatever it is, only 11% actually ever get treated. And now with COVID, that number is even lower. So what we want to do with these podcasts and these messages is make sure that people know that you’re not alone. There’s help out here. Gambling and gaming can be just as dangerous as substances. But also, we want to make sure that you understand that it’s not a moral failing and that we are here to help.
Host: Shane Cook
That’s perfect. And thank you all so much again. I knew this was going to be a fantastic topic. Chris, thank you so much for co-hosting. I hope you enjoyed it as much as I did.
Host: Chris Ward
Absolutely. I think I learned a lot from all of our panelists.
Host: Shane Cook
And thanks for volunteering to come back for a follow on episode.
Host: Chris Ward
Do we just do that?
Host: Shane Cook
Well, I heard everybody agree to a future episode, a follow-up.
Host: Chris Ward
I think I heard that too. I had it muted, but I think.
Host: Shane Cook
I heard all right, so it’s done. We’ll put it on the schedule. I appreciate it. We’d love hearing from you, so please take a moment to comment. Share like our podcast? You can find us on Facebook and Twitter at Recovergateway, on LinkedIn, at gateway foundation or through our website@gatewayfoundation.org. Wager Danger is supported through funding in whole or in part through a grant from the Illinois Department of Human Services and the Division of Substance Use Prevention and Recovery. Remember, you are not alone. Recovery is a lifelong process that requires consistent commitment to keeping yourself happy and healthy. If you or a family member is struggling with a gambling problem, call Gateway at 844-975-3663 or the way back in at 708-345-8422 and speak with one of our counselors for a free confidential assessment. Thanks again, everybody.
Look forward to seeing all of our listeners on our next episode. Thanks for tuning in to Wager Danger.
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